Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 1st, 2026

[Fred Davies, Conservative, Niagara South, ON]

Why?

[Gauri Sreenivasan]

It's because we have housing needs.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Alexis Deschênes]

Time is up, unfortunately. You will be able to continue the discussion later.

I'll now give the floor to Mr. Zuberi, from the Liberal Party, for six minutes.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to give a moment more to Ms. Sreenivasan to complete the thought she had.

[Gauri Sreenivasan]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

We know that we have refugee claimants. Their volumes go up and down, but we do have them, and there's an essential obligation on Canada. We have communities ready to receive them, and they have interim housing needs.

In the same way that we have shelters and homes built for other kinds of populations, having dedicated housing in key urban centres in Canada to provide transitional housing for claimants is a super smart and efficient use of resources. It is much more efficient than the emergency short-term housing that was done through hotels, for example. We're looking at about a third to a fifth of the cost to house people daily in an interim housing situation, so having those structures set up permanently so that cities can manage the flows is really wise.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you. I appreciate that you fleshed out that it's actually economically more efficient to use that method over the other method.

In your opening remarks, you hinted that you have some suggestions for regulations as they relate to existing legislation. I'd like to give you some time to flesh that out.

[Gauri Sreenivasan]

As I think the committee is aware, there was a lot of concern from refugee expert organizations and refugee lawyers about the changes in Bill C-12. That legislation has now passed, but we have some important opportunities to address the ways in which we could reduce the inefficiencies and the backlogs that will be created by Bill C-12.

For example, we are concerned about the fairness of hearings under the PRRA system. That could result in backlogs of reviews at the Federal Court later. We are also concerned about families because of the nature of the complex ineligibilities in the bill. These will be split, with parents being sent to the PRRA process and children being sent to the IRB, or a number of individuals will be stuck in limbo for extended periods without status, unable to move on with their lives and in a much worse situation for moving on to contribute to Canada.

The regulations provide an opportunity for the government, and the government has committed to looking at certain kinds of key exemptions that could be introduced for certain kinds of refugee claimants who would not be banned from accessing the IRB. CCR believes strongly that in addition to the exemption for unaccompanied minors, the minister should be looking at exemptions in a few key areas.

They include, for example, the need to have an exemption from the new ineligibilities in the context of a rapid change in a country's condition. That has nothing to do with how long a person has been in the country, but it would enable a more effective process for a person to act as a claimant at the IRB and result in fewer reviews at the Federal Court later.

We think it would be really important to have exemptions for people who are from moratorium countries, meaning countries where Canada cannot return people, which means they would not have access to the PRRA.

We also think it would be important to look at the principle of family reunification and the best interests of the child, so that when a family member already has access to the IRB, they would not be separated from their family, who would be shunted to a separate process in the PRRA.

Those three scenarios could result in revisions of the case, because they could be found to be cases where basically principles of justice were not found.

I think a number of exemptions under Bill C-12 would make for a more effective and expeditious process for Bill C-12 and would be an important part of the national system.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I'd like to invite you to put these things to paper as written suggestions for regulations. I'm sure that officials have taken note of your testimony and will look at it as a result, but to enhance what you're saying, I would invite you to submit written suggestions around these regulations.

Now I'd like to go to Mr. Sadinsky.

Earlier you mentioned legal aid and the unevenness of legal aid availability to claimants. On these very consequential decisions and applications that people are putting forth with respect to their futures and where they'll be living, what happens when somebody doesn't have legal aid services? What do you end up seeing? You did hint at how it leads to a challenging and uneven process that leads to several appeals later on, but can you elaborate on and dive a bit deeper into what you actually see with those who don't have legal representation?

[Adam Bercovitch Sadinsky]

Absolutely. I can speak from my experience as a lawyer. I often end up fixing cases that come to me from people who prepared them on their own, often because they couldn't find counsel or they didn't even know that they could access legal aid. That's another issue.

The reality is that refugee determination in Canada is not straightforward. There seems to be a sense that when it comes to refugees, we know one when we see one. If it were that simple, there wouldn't be a backlog at the board, because there wouldn't be the complex suite of legal questions that have to be addressed.

When a person prepares the initial claim, they're not just telling their story. They have to be telling that story within the matrix of legal questions that a determination under the refugee convention requires.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Alexis Deschênes]

Your time is up.

I will take the next turn, as I am the only representative of the Bloc Québécois here.

I'll start with you, Ms. Sreenivasan. Thank you for being here and for your testimony.

You rightly mentioned the conditions necessary for proper distribution to take place. Before we discuss that, let's start at the beginning.

If I understand correctly, the Canadian Council for Refugees is open to working with us to ensure a more equitable distribution of asylum seekers among the provinces. Is that correct?

[Gauri Sreenivasan]

Our position is that the current system is putting pressure on many cities and communities. However, the real problem is that there isn't enough investment in infrastructure or services. In some places, language classes are being cut, there is no support for child care, or there isn't enough investment in temporary housing. So there are gaps across the country in terms of infrastructure and services.

If we rebuild this infrastructure and create successful models, asylum seekers will have far more choice when it comes to finding a community where they can find employment and support, including legal aid, to move forward with their lives.

In my view, if services and infrastructure are improved, distribution will be better. We don't start by asking how to ensure better distribution. It's not that we oppose it; we're just saying that there are many more options if services are more comprehensive.

I hope that's clear.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Alexis Deschênes]

If asylum seekers were distributed equitably among Canada's various provinces, do you see any benefits to that, particularly in terms of the capacity of public services to properly accommodate people?

[Gauri Sreenivasan]

It's actually the other way around. If the services were adequately funded to become well established, then there would be a much more sustainable distribution.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Alexis Deschênes]

The fact remains, however, that there is a cost issue when it comes to providing integration services.

I'm trying to understand this idea of distributing asylum seekers equitably. If we move in this direction, I understand that services will need to be accessible throughout Canada's provinces. There is a particular issue regarding legal aid, but we must also ensure that these people are treated with dignity, and that housing is available for them. The formula needs to be discussed.

How do you view this idea of distributing asylum seekers equitably among the provinces? Are you open to this idea?

[Gauri Sreenivasan]

The difference is that, when people talk about equitable distribution, I hear something quantitative. For us, though, it's really something qualitative. It's about determining which communities are ready and have the capacity.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Alexis Deschênes]

However, that takes time to build.

[Gauri Sreenivasan]

There are many provinces, for example, that want to welcome even more immigrants, such as Manitoba and the Atlantic provinces. To help immigrants access services, much more federal funding would be needed. That way, we could help these provinces welcome more immigrants and refugees, and everyone would benefit.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Alexis Deschênes]

Okay.

Last week, in the House of Commons, the minister told us that she was working on attaining equitable distribution.

If we were able to move forward—or, at the very least, demonstrate the political will to ensure equitable distribution—what would be necessary for this to work?

[Gauri Sreenivasan]

We need a round table, a space for dialogue, or a forum in which provinces, municipalities and members of civil society can participate. It doesn't seem to exist. Perhaps a working group or something a bit special should be established to begin this dialogue. This is a key element.

The other absolutely key element concerns the federal government's commitment to funding temporary housing.

The interim housing assistance program was recently renewed. It's very positive, but it was renewed at a much lower level than what is needed. Again, it's only for three years.

This timeline isn't long enough to allow Manitoba or the Atlantic provinces to plan, so it's also a matter of funding.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Alexis Deschênes]

So what's needed is a round table and funding.

From 2021 to 2023, the federal government provided $750 million to the Quebec government to offset the costs associated with public services. A person might therefore think that this gesture is an admission on the part of the government that, when there are asylum seekers, it obviously entails costs.

Do you feel that there is currently political leadership moving toward an equitable distribution of asylum seekers?

[Gauri Sreenivasan]

No, I don't really see any political leadership right now when it comes to finding a national solution. That's what we need. A recommendation from the committee on this would be very welcome.

For example, we need a national dialogue, an effective system of coordination and collaboration among levels of government, and a clear commitment to civil society. That would be a demonstration of leadership. Your study is therefore very welcome.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Alexis Deschênes]

Thank you very much, Ms. Sreenivasan.

We'll now move on to the second round.

Mr. Menegakis, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for appearing before us.

I'm going to start my questions with you, Mr. Johnston. Can you tell us what areas of Calgary city services are seeing the most direct financial strain from the large number of asylum seekers, refugees and newcomers to the city?

[Landon Johnston]

We don't necessarily have the exact numbers because we don't track them, but those areas are housing and obviously social support—so subsidized transit passes, rec passes. It's basically any subsidized form of service the city offers, all aspects.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Is it likely that many asylum claimants would be homeless because social services in your city are at capacity?