Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 9th, 2025

[Roopa Desai Trilokekar]

I think this is why most countries started hosting international students post-World War II. It is to make sure that any country's national interests, political interests, are better served when students come stay and study in their countries. They learn about the country. They get an affinity for the values of the county so that whether you stay or whether you go back to your home country, or to a third or fourth country, there's an affinity that's built. Therefore, when you have future interests, in terms of business or politics, or whatever the case might be, you're able to connect with the country that you've studied in. That's called soft power.

The U.S. is a classic example. It's a power that they have lost, squandered, in the last few years. However, if you think about the U.S. soft power, this is one of the reasons it was built so well; they educated students from all parts of the world who went back and had political and economic affiliations with the U.S, including Canadians who have studied in the U.S.

This is the notion of soft power. It enables countries to form alliances, to have other countries affiliate and believe in Canadian values, in Canadian political and economic interests.

I think, especially given current geopolitics, Canada has an excellent role to play in building this soft power and in having these affiliations worldwide, which is something that we're not currently paying attention to.

I hope that answers the question.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Yes, it does. Thank you.

You've also written about how universities themselves initiated the recruitment of international students in Canada. Are you able to tell us how this process began? What motivated it, and what strategies did universities use to attract students from abroad?

[Roopa Desai Trilokekar]

Canada is an anomaly in that sense, because unlike other countries, the federal government and provincial governments have not really invested in something that you would see in Britain, which is the British Council, or in the U.S., which used to have the United States Education Foundation all over the world. We never really invested in marketing educational services, many years ago, abroad.

The institutions themselves, the universities, saw the value in hosting international students for research, for exchanges and for building. The role of higher education is to build academic scholarship. It was the universities that initiated this process. It's part of what is called “internationalization of higher education”, which is to expand their outreach and to expand their affiliations. I would say that Canada has been an anomaly, because before the federal government stepped in and had formal policies, it was universities, the institutions themselves, that began developing initiatives with other countries and hosting international students.

Universities have, even today, their own offices that recruit students and scholars all over the world. At one time, they invested more than the federal or provincial governments ever invested in recruiting students from abroad, so institutions have been on the front line, but things started changing over time. The federal government and provincial governments started taking interest and started investing monies in recruitment. However, in that sense, Canada is an anomaly. We've never really seen this in any other parts of the world, where the institutions took the lead, but we did.

I don't know if that answers it. Again, if you have questions, I'd be happy to answer them further.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you so much.

We're a little short on time now, so answer very quickly.

You've also written about the problems that arise when international education is treated as an industry. From your perspective, what would it take to rebalance the system so that international students are treated fairly and receive meaningful academic and employment opportunities, and are able to fully contribute to Canada's economy and society?

[Roopa Desai Trilokekar]

Going back to one of the points I made about how we can learn from other systems and other jurisdictions, one of the very interesting countries to look at is Germany. Just like Canada, Germany is a highly decentralized federation, but it doesn't have the same financial impetus to host international students. International students can still study without differential tuition in Germany. One of things you'll notice is that the international student population is very diverse, and it is more focused on—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Michelle Rempel]

I'll just get you to wrap up quickly.

[Roopa Desai Trilokekar]

I'm sorry.

It is more focused on very specific specializations. One can look at other jurisdictions, but I would, again, go back to my first point—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Michelle Rempel]

Thank you. We are out of time, but maybe we'll come back to you. I gave you an extra 30 seconds, because I'm feeling so generous.

We're going over now to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Trilokekar, you've studied Ottawa's role in the internationalization of education extensively.

Do you think the federal government is currently providing appropriate leadership in the way it manages study permit programs?

[Roopa Desai Trilokekar]

Unfortunately, I would say that Canada has not had a lead. We don't have a federal ministry of education. I really worry about IRCC taking over as a de facto ministry of education and entering this arena. We do not have a ministry of education, which becomes a challenge when looking at the internationalization of higher education nationally.

However, earlier on, the Department of Foreign Affairs did take a lead, but there are several departments that have pieces of this puzzle of internationalization. There are ministries that look at research and innovation. There are other ministries that look at immigration and other ministries that look at global affairs. It is a very disparate file, which creates challenges for us. This is why I said that we can look at other models to see how we can have better coordination.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

You and I certainly won't agree on the idea of setting up a federal education department because that's a provincial power. However, there may be something we can agree on. Quebec already has a ministry of immigration, francization and integration, as well as a ministry of education. Given that these two entities already exist and that Quebec has jurisdiction over education as well as an immigration ministry, wouldn't it make more sense for Quebec to manage international student permits itself? You pointed me in that direction. I hadn't thought of going there, but you put the idea in my head.

[Roopa Desai Trilokekar]

I'm not sure whether immigration should be transferred directly to the provinces; I cannot speak to that. All I can say is that our nature of federalism is very highly decentralized and there are mechanisms we need to put in place to have far better coordination and communication.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Michelle Rempel]

Thank you. We are over our time.

I understand that the Conservatives will take about three and a half minutes and it will be the same for our Liberal colleagues.

I will go over to Mr. Menegakis for about three and a half minutes.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My question is for Mr. Tibbits.

I was surprised when you made the comment that you don't have problems in the region. Are you aware of what the youth unemployment rate is in the Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo area alone, which is the area that you primarily service?

[John Tibbits]

No, I didn't say we didn't have problems. I said there are challenges when you bring in that many.

We look at the greater good. The contribution that was made as far as job placements in the region are concerned is enormous. We invested in—

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Tibbits, I believe your response to my colleague, when she mentioned that the region is a mess, was, “First of all,” we don't have those problems; “the region is not a mess.”

I would argue with you, sir, that a 16.7% youth unemployment rate is not something to brag about in the region, especially when you're bringing in international students in astronomical numbers, which obviously pads the bottom line. I'm sure that tied into your salary and bonus structure.

You also said you found housing for everybody. One of your own councillors in the region spoke to a student who couldn't take it any more after living in a house with 13 other students. He was number 14. I think you saw him walking down the street with the only possession he had in the house, because he couldn't live in a house with 13 other people. The only possession he had was a chair.

Do you think that falls under housing?

[John Tibbits]

If that's the reality, that's not good. We want our students to be housed properly, obviously.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

It is a reality. It was public, sir. It was published in a newspaper. It was one of the councillors who said it. I believe his name was Michael Harris. He went public about it. I think it's something you would have known, or ought to have known, as a person of some repute in the area.

My next question for you is simple. Conestoga, by your admission and your financial statements, raked in millions from international students, knowing that there wasn't enough housing, that some of those students would be visiting food banks and that there was an unemployment crisis in the area. More than half a billion dollars went into your bank account. It was over $700 million last year. You said you've invested about $150 million. That leaves you with about $550 million. Your bank account has massively increased, in large part, because of this increase you've had from international students, no doubt.

The government often speaks of bad actors. The media talks about them. Conestoga, sadly, is one of the names that always come up. What do you have to say about that?

[John Tibbits]

What I have to say is we've invested all of that money. We put at least $500 million into infrastructure, new programs, hiring hundreds of people and expanding our housing base. We worked with each community. We were encouraged. We helped to revitalize the downtown.

Obviously, there were some difficulties. There's no question about it.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

With all due respect, don't you feel you should have some social responsibility to the community you serve?

[John Tibbits]

We do have social responsibility.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

This year alone, you're laying off people. Why are you laying people off when you have $550 million in the bank? According to the public records, you make an astronomical salary. Why are you laying people off?

[John Tibbits]

We don't have $500 million in the bank. That's not the case. We do not have $500 million, and the numbers, as you know, have been cut dramatically.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Michelle Rempel]

Thank you, colleagues.

I'm now going over to Mr. Zuberi for his last few minutes.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to ask my questions of Ms. Trilokekar.

You were speaking about the good examples of what other countries are doing. You touched briefly upon Germany, and maybe you can weave that in a bit as you answer.

I would like to know what lessons you think Canada can learn from other countries in terms of how they aren't overly reliant on international student tuition.