Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Sept. 19th, 2006

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Overall, are there enough primary schools in your communities? Are there enough spaces to accommodate all students who want to attend?

[David Serkoak]

I can talk only about my own experience in two or three communities in which I worked in the past 20 or 25 years.

Looking at primary education, it varies from community to community. I'm using Iqaluit as an example. A large portion were coming into the primary system, let's say at kindergarten, and a certain number would exit at the end. Looking at the grades in between, at K to 5, the attendance is fair to good, in some places very good, depending on your location, the makeup of the community, and how you run your programs. Attendance is based on your commitment to the community and your role as a school in the community.

Yes, a good number of students coming in at the primary level exit grade 5 in fair to good numbers, and beyond that, I may not have the right numbers. If I gave specific numbers, I would just be guessing. I would like to emphasize some of the good students that also come out at the grade 12 level and go on to other programs at NS, Arctic College, or other colleges across Canada. For example, in the last year, you could find the kids coming out of high school in Iqaluit, for example, in colleges across Canada and also in various universities across Canada--many in this group here.

Yes, at the primary end, from my own experience I can say that the space and the lack of personnel are always problems. I'd like to see more Inuit teaching in Inuktitut across Nunavut. I think we are moving towards that, but there's lots to be done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you. Could you identify yourself, sir, please, so we can have it on the record?

[David Serkoak]

My name is David Serkoak. I am an instructor at Nunavut Sivuniksavut.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you very much.

We'll move on to Madam Crowder, please.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank you for coming before the committee today.

I wonder if we could introduce the two people who weren't introduced at the beginning.

[Mishael Gordon, Student, Nunavut Sivuniksavut Program]

I'm Mishael Gordon, a second-year student with the Nunavut Sivuniksavut program. I'm from Iqaluit, Nunavut.

[Tommy Akulukjuk, Alumni, Nunavut Sivuniksavut Program]

I'm Tommy Akulukjuk, an alumnus of the Nunavut Sivuniksavut program.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Welcome.

Of course, I have many questions, and committee members will know that.

I would like to start with centring this discussion. I think it's a point that often gets missed. I have the PricewaterhouseCoopers report that just recently came out. It reminded all of us about the objectives of the NLCA, the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement, which is I think why we're having this discussion around education. Just as a reminder, part of it was to encourage self-reliance in the cultural and social well-being of Inuit. It seems to me that education fits within that objective of the land claims agreement.

My question then becomes, if there was a commitment in the land claims agreement--and Mr. Berger was very clear, from what I understand, in his report that education was an essential part of the land claims agreement--has anybody done an analysis of what it will cost Nunavut if investment in education is not adequate to meet the needs of the people? I'm thinking about what the cost will be in the justice system, the welfare system, and the health care system if adequate investment in education hasn't been made.

[Laurie Pelly, Legal Counsel, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated]

Thank you.

I can respond to that question in terms of what Mr. Berger has found and what PricewaterhouseCoopers found in its analysis of the cost if the bilingual education system in Nunavut is not established in a successful way. What he reported is that there will be a net dollar cost to the Government of Canada of approximately $137 million per year as of 2003. Those costs include $72 million in lost Inuit salary and wages, as well as a cost to the Government of Canada in terms of recruiting, hiring, and training southern employees to come north and run the Government of Nunavut, and also an estimated cost in social assistance payments and effective tax revenue flowing back to the government.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

That does not include the human cost to people in terms of their quality of life. I just want to add that.

I'm not sure who would want to answer this question. We've been talking about the cost of running your organization, your college, in Ottawa. I spoke to colleges in northern Ontario this year that have a significant number of aboriginal students. They told me that the cost of running the programs and all of the issues you've identified was one thing, but the second issue was the cost for students to actually attend, how seriously underfunded they were, and how there was a lack of recognition of different family circumstances. Many students are older or may have children, or there are other issues in terms of transportation to return home if there's an important event that they need to go home for.

Can you talk about the difference between what the college gets for funding versus how the students are funded?

[Murray Angus, Instructor, Nunavut Sivuniksavut Program]

The NS program is funded, as was mentioned, from about six different sources that we have to raise every year, only one of which is automatic.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Does that funding pay for the students? Does that cover student costs?

[Murray Angus]

The funding we raise is separate from the funding students derive from the Government of Nunavut.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

That's what I was trying to get at. Where is the money coming from for the students?

[Murray Angus]

It comes from the Government of Nunavut under their financial assistance for Nunavut's students program. It's automatic because they're enrolled in an accredited post-secondary program while they're at NS. It amounts to about $825 a month for living expenses, air fare for two return trips a year, and an allowance for books. The money we raise in the program is raised to supplement that, to the tune of perhaps $300 a month maximum, and that amount is based on attendance.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

So you're raising money to subsidize the students attending.

[Murray Angus]

To supplement, yes.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Because there isn't enough funding for that.

Do I have time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Yes, you do.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Back to the funding for the college itself, you touched on it briefly, but I actually worked in a university college, so I have some sympathy for the challenges. So you're funded on an annual basis by your own fundraising efforts, which means that you have limited funds for curriculum development and additional program development, which probably means that you have very little funding to do training for your own instructors, so there's no professional development for your instructors, which I also assume means that you have very little money to do extracurricular projects for the students. Is that an accurate assessment?

[Murray Angus]

Mostly. The issue of development of the program is that we're at a stage in the history of the program--we're in our 22nd year. The demand has been so high for such a sustained period of time, but our capacity to prepare the organization internally to meet that demand is that we just don't have that capacity because our funding sources that we raise money from every year have more or less maxed out. They're giving us all they can, but they've reached their limit. And because that funding is year to year, we can't presume next year's amount. We can't safely invest in new staff because it takes a couple of years for anybody to come on stream and really be well versed on what it is we do in this rather unique operation. David Serkoak, who was sitting here a minute ago, has just begun, but he's on a secondment arrangement with the Government of Nunavut. This is a wonderful arrangement for us, because we can't predict our own funding, but he's still on their salary and we're sharing the cost.

Our ability to develop staff is a real critical issue right now because that's going to be critical in our ability to meet that demand. You know, there are 60 people applying and we have only 22 spots, and it's been like that for years. We can't move unless we have a more secure and more sizeable base of funding that we can plan on for several years ahead. That's our core issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you, Madam Crowder.

Before we go to the government questions, the PricewaterhouseCoopers report you have, what is the official name of that report?

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

It is the “Second Independent Five Year Review of Implementation of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement, Final Report”, May 11, 2006, prepared by PricewaterhouseCoopers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you very much.

To the government side, Mr. Bruinooge.