Evidence of meeting #2 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
The next one is with respect to the witness expenses that you have before you: that if requested, reasonable travel, accommodation, and living expenses be reimbursed to witnesses, not exceeding two representatives per organization, and that in exceptional circumstances payment for more representatives be made at the discretion of the chair.
Any comment with respect to that? Are we agreeable to that? It's fairly standard, I'm told by Roger.
Jean.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
I have a question. I presume that in other committees, when we've had witnesses, we've had a budget that the committee had approved. I assume that's standard procedure when we do this.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
I notice in the motion the words “if requested”. My experience on another committee was that members attending as witnesses did not know they had to request compensation for their travel. I think it's important that people know they are entitled to compensation for up to two people from each organization. I don't know how the clerk manages that, but I don't want to deny people access because they don't have the dollars to come.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
Anita, you would know, as would other members who have served here before, that sometimes you will have groups that are in town on other business--their association meeting or whatever occurs here--at the last minute or a week in advance only, so they don't request because they're already covered by their organization.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
That's fair enough. My concern is that if somebody is not coming to Ottawa for any other purpose but wants to attend before the committee to make a presentation on whatever topic, they be advised that there is a travel allowance available to them.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
Are there any other thoughts or comments with respect to that?
Mr. Albrecht.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Mr. Chairman, I want to affirm the previous comments. However, I do have a concern about the wording here in that it could leave a chairman in the difficult position of deciding how many additional people could be requested, and it would be a judgment call. I think it might be wise on our part to put a maximum there, so I would suggest wording that would include “to a maximum of three”, for example.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
You want to tie my hands then, I guess. That's okay.
I agree, and in fact I don't know if I'm fully comfortable with an open end there anyhow. So I would say that's a point.
Nancy.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Nancy Karetak-Lindell Liberal Nunavut, NU
The only time in the past we allowed more than two was with elders who needed someone to accompany them while they travelled, or a veteran who needed help travelling. It was in very rare cases. The committee did leave that discretion up to the chair and trusted their good judgment, that there would not be very many cases and only in extraordinary cases.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
Mr. Albrecht, were you suggesting that we set a limit? For example, if there were two elders and they each needed an attendant or assistant--
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Nancy Karetak-Lindell Liberal Nunavut, NU
What I'm saying is that we leave it to the discretion of the chair, because it would be in extraordinary cases, and I don't think there'd be any other case very often.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
I'm just saying that under the circumstances you described--
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
You don't need three attendants per person; you'd need one per person. If you had two witnesses and they were at opposite ends of the country, they'd each have an attendant, say. So you'd have an additional two.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Nancy Karetak-Lindell Liberal Nunavut, NU
I was just referring to his comment about having a maximum of three people. That means two witnesses and one attendant, the way I understood it.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Since budgets are finite as the governing party has just demonstrated, two representatives per organization would suffice, but they would have to know that in advance. If I am coming from Puvirnituk and I am the director or the assistant, I know that two representatives per organization is the rule, period. Exceptionally—but this is not the rule—a request can be made to the chair, who would decide. Since budgets are limited, we must be accountable for the money we allocate. I think that we should reimburse the expenses of, at the most, two representatives per organization. Let's be careful, otherwise we run the risk of hosting a lot of visitors at our expense.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
So we don't have a subamendment here, unless somebody is willing to put one forward. The motion reads, “not exceeding two per organization...exceptional circumstances...payment for more authorized at the discretion of the chair”.
Do we want to suggest some limits?
Mr. Albrecht.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I'm only trying to help the chair not be put in a difficult position. So I'm prepared to just leave it, unless other committee members feel it's important.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maurice Vellacott
Are there any other thoughts? Leave it as is?
Monsieur Lévesque.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
If there are no further comments, I move the motion as tabled. We will see in the course of our work whether it needs to be changed.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative