Evidence of meeting #20 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
I'm sorry, but those aren't stand-alone institutions. I'm talking about stand-alone first nations educational institutions, because some work has been done in places such as New Zealand that talks about the success of stand-alone first nations educational institutions.
With all respect, the ISSP does not provide the capital, the infrastructure, and the operation and maintenance on an ongoing basis, which is really what's needed for institutions, right?
Executive Coordinator of Post-secondary Education, Education Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
With the exception of First Nations University.
Executive Coordinator of Post-secondary Education, Education Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
We certainly had reports and interventions from institutions themselves, and in fact we have a relationship with the National Association of Indigenous Institutes of Higher Learning, NAIIHL, that advocate with us in relation to supporting aboriginal stand-alone institutions. But we haven't come down with a decision about whether we would want to support operations for the expenses of those kinds of institutions. It's currently not permitted under the ISSP.
Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Socio-Economic Policy and Regional Operations, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Trades training predominantly comes through the AHRDAs from Human Resources and Social Development Canada, and it's actually been a very successful program. As I mentioned in the data, there is a high percentage of aboriginal—
NDP
Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Socio-Economic Policy and Regional Operations, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I don't have the data for first nations in particular, other than as a subset, and we'll have to look at that data. But there are very successful AHRDA agreements supporting that kind of training.
NDP
Executive Coordinator of Post-secondary Education, Education Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
The relationship between AHRDA funding and the Indian Affairs post-secondary funding is something that we think we have to work on to ensure there is no duplication. That way the funding utilized in first nations and Inuit communities is optimal.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
There doesn't seem to be much communication between the departments on it.
Executive Coordinator of Post-secondary Education, Education Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
It's fair to say that there hasn't been.
Liberal
Todd Russell Liberal Labrador, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome.
God, where do we start? First, with NS. I would think there's consensus around the committee. Can one of you meet with somebody from NS to go over this program to maybe talk about a path forward? It's something that needs to be supported. I'm only throwing it out as a suggestion, but come on, somebody needs to sit down to talk to try to sort this matter out. We're supporting the program. Make it work for them. I'm sure there's flexibility.
Now, the other question is this. It's 25 years next year since the Métis were included in the Constitution in 1982. There was not one mention of Métis in this presentation. There's absolutely no inclusion of the Métis in any of these particular programs.
I have a couple of questions. What does the department regard as its legal obligations to Métis in the realm of education? What does the department regard as its policy obligations to Métis with respect to education? In your renewal and in your restructuring or reassessments, is there any talk, any formulation of policy that would include Métis under post-secondary education programming—not to take away from others, but to build a more inclusive program with the requisite funding?
Allan MacDonald Director General, Federal Interlocutor for Métis and Non-Status Indians, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I guess that one's for me.
Mr. Russell, thank you for the question.
Director General, Federal Interlocutor for Métis and Non-Status Indians, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Thanks for that.
There are a couple of things. To state the obvious, there is no post-secondary program for Métis similar to those for first nations. I can't say what the underlying reasons for that are, but I can surmise, I think.
Traditionally, the federal government is of the view that, notwithstanding the fact that Métis are in the Constitution, for the most part our legal and constitutional responsibilities are much greater towards first nations as distinct from Métis. That's one of the legal underpinnings, and it informs our policy choices.
Having said that, while there's no direct support, as there is with first nations for first nations students, there is some indirect support that goes to Métis students to support their access to post-secondary education. The federal government a number of years ago helped to capitalize the National Aboriginal Achievement Foundation, with about $12 million. We know that Métis are heavy users of the bursaries and scholarships that institution grants.
We know as well through the AHRDA program that Métis institutions have created their own granting institutions and partnerships with provinces and universities to assist Métis students to get access to post-secondary education. In no way does that compare with the scale and scope on which Indian Affairs works with first nations, but it is some kind of indirect support that the federal government supplies for Métis kids.
Liberal
Todd Russell Liberal Labrador, NL
As a direct follow-up question, are there any papers being developed, or is any consideration being given to Métis being included under post-secondary education programs under Indian Affairs or the OFI?
Director General, Federal Interlocutor for Métis and Non-Status Indians, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I'll let the post-secondary renewal people answer a part of that question, but I can say that we have been, I guess “lobbied” is the word, by the Métis National Council to continue providing support to the institutions they've set up. There is some consideration of those proposals within government, within OFI, and government will have to make a decision as to how it wants to proceed on this.
Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Socio-Economic Policy and Regional Operations, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
In terms of the other part of the question, whether we are looking at expanding the eligibility criteria, if I'm understanding the question, of the post-secondary education program to include Métis, I would say we're not. That's not under consideration right now.
Liberal
Todd Russell Liberal Labrador, NL
I guess we will recommend as a committee—well, I hope we'll recommend as a committee—that you undertake that and be directed to undertake it.
How about you? Do you want to add something, Mr. Budgell?
Executive Coordinator of Post-secondary Education, Education Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I'll just go back to your first question: can one of us meet with people from NS? I'd be delighted to, and we will work at figuring something out.
Conservative
