Evidence of meeting #22 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was community.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:35 a.m.
Director of Education, Membertou First Nation
How does this work? Is it supposed to work?
9:35 a.m.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Yes, it's supposed to work.
Let's try it. Is it OK? You turn the knob until you hear the discussion in the language of your choice.
9:35 a.m.
Director of Education, Membertou First Nation
When I speak French, everybody laughs.
9:35 a.m.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
I will not laugh; on the opposite, I will be pleased. I am happy to notice that you speak French. We'll get along very well.
I have a very specific question for you. You said earlier that there are several lawyers in your community, but no dentist or medical doctor. It costs more to train a medical doctor, a dentist or an engineer than to train a lawyer.
Have you set aside funds for a student who would like to study medicine and who will spend the next seven years at university? Have you recurring budgets to assist such a student through his/her studies?
I have another important question. You asked us to help prepare young people to make the transition from high school to post-secondary education.
What are the conditions required to enable you to send at least 80 of your students to post-secondary institutions?
In four minutes, please.
9:35 a.m.
Director of Education, Membertou First Nation
In four minutes? Okay.
Going back to the first question you asked me, one of our current issues is that we need to identify areas in which we want specializations to occur. To that end, one of the components of the MOU we're signing with Cape Breton University is the development of a bachelor of arts in community studies that looks at four specific strands. We've initially identified those four as the areas in which there's a need to develop people.
We're looking at a policing stream, because we need more police officers. We're looking at a social work stream, because we believe we need to get a handle on some of the social issues in our community. We have a teaching stream, because we believe we need more teachers and we need more people to be role models in our community. The fourth stream is a sports option, because we want to develop activities to keep our youth out of harm's way, I guess, and to give them better alternatives when they're growing up.
We also support activities that allow for the development of a professional aboriginal person. We consistently send people to conferences. Our education staff promotes engineers. That's a big thing.
By the way, I have a math degree. I always wanted to be an engineer, but growing up, I didn't see any jobs. I never had an aboriginal engineer role model. I just didn't have those role models.
Why are there so many teachers in first nations Canada? Because these are the only jobs that exist on reserve. We have schools, but we don't have engineering companies and so on--yet. I say “yet” because I'm an optimist. We're going to have them. They're going to come. We're going to train our young people.
If a student wants to become a doctor, or wants to become an engineer, or wants some other type of learning, we will find in our community.... Under the current post-secondary program, you can support that student up to becoming that. Unfortunately, the rates and allowances that are there make it very difficult for someone to study to become a doctor. When all you can provide them with is $625 a month to live in a place like Toronto, Ottawa, or Montreal, it becomes a disincentive at some point for them to stay a student for very long. So we need to find other ways to support them and to allow them to meet those life goals.
That was the first question. The second question was in terms of the graduation rates. We need to provide first nations with the resources, both fiscal and human, to be able to counsel and work with their young people so that they are able to achieve better success at the high school level.
One thing we did in our high school was hire a social worker as our student support worker. In our community we also looked at some of our jobs and said that we wanted professional people employed in our community to allow for better success for our students, and we now have social workers. Some of our student support workers are teachers. We've told them, “You have certain skills and abilities. We're not employing you as a teacher, but you're going to be able to use some of your skills in this job.”
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. GooGoo, for coming out today.
My question is probably going to be a bit more philosophical. Up until fairly recently, first nations people actually were not permitted to get post-secondary education. In the early- to mid-1900s, if first nations persons wanted post-secondary degrees, they needed to give up their status. It wasn't until 1977 that the federal government actually formalized assistance to post-secondary students. And 1977 is pretty recent.
On top of that, you can layer in the residential school history, which did not really provide people an opportunity to get secondary education such that they could even think about going to post-secondary.
On top of that, in 1992 the department completed a strategic review of the post-secondary education program and found that resources were not being provided to meet first nations needs. In 1997 block funding envelopes were capped. Then we have a whole litany of studies that identify the issues and the barriers. We're talking about years and years.
So why can we not make the commitment to the resources, financial and human, that are clearly recognized and outlined? What is it that's preventing us from doing that?
9:40 a.m.
Director of Education, Membertou First Nation
There is a lack of political will in Canada to address some of the major issues affecting first nations. The only way we're going to be able to turn that around is by having first nations be more vocal, by having first nations get into positions of power. I'm an optimist and I think that will happen. I look around the table and I know I'm not the only aboriginal person here. That's an important consideration. I look around, and where has it hampered us prior to 1977?
For those of you around the table, my mother is also a teacher, so I had a wonderful role model growing up. My mother has a Bachelor of Education, a Bachelor of Arts, a Master of Education, and three days ago she received an honorary doctorate. Education has been a cornerstone in my family. But this is also a woman who graduated from high school at the age of seventeen in 1958 and never had an opportunity to go on to post-secondary study. My mother became a teacher. She went to university in 1980 at the age of 39 and graduated at 44. She became a teacher, and she has gone on to do wonderful things in our community. Unfortunately, the investment was made in my mother at a later time. Fortunately, it was made. The money would have been better spent when she was seventeen or eighteen. Of course, I might not be here, so I don't know how I feel about that--I'm still a little ambiguous on that.
That's one of the things we need.
When we look at aboriginal Canada today...there should be no people in this country who don't feel as if this is their country more than the aboriginal citizens. No people should feel that this is their country more than us. Yet some aboriginal people feel they're being left behind. That's a dangerous road for Canada to go down.
I hope this committee will be able to make positive changes and continue to move forward with the agenda started in 1977. We may have stalled, but I think we're going to continue to move forward.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes
Thank you.
I'm going to turn to Mr. Bruinooge for five minutes, and then we have to move on.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Rod Bruinooge Conservative Winnipeg South, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would also like to echo the sentiments of the member for Labrador about your speaking style. It's very inspirational; you should get on the road and sell tickets.That would be a good revenue stream.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Rod Bruinooge Conservative Winnipeg South, MB
I'm just kidding, You're a very good speaker.
I want to go back to some of your comments in relation to getting a larger number of students prepared for post-secondary. Perhaps you could talk about the methods by which your community manages both primary and secondary.
Then I'd like to ask you a bit more about the transition that your community had from a previous system of government to the current model, which you said employs a CEO. This sounds as if it has an elected administration that looks after the community through various transitions of governance.
But perhaps you could start with the first part of that question, which was on primary and secondary schooling.
9:45 a.m.
Director of Education, Membertou First Nation
I appeared before this committee in 1997 to talk about Bill C-30, which later became the Mi'kmaq Education Act.
In our community, we set the priorities in education. We have an education constitution, and it's very simple. It sets out some very basic principles in that constitution. One of those principles is that we will not employ anyone under the age of eighteen between the hours of nine o'clock and 3:30 every single day, because those students should be in school. So even within our own education constitution, we've made education for young people the most basic priority. At the same time, since we now control the envelope of funding for education, we can choose to spend less money in some areas and more money in education, and we have done that.
I'm happy to say that when I joined the band in 1997, the single biggest expenditure in our community was for social.... It's a sad commentary, but also a very real one for first nations in this country. Currently, the largest program dollar expenditure in our community is for education. It's a sign of a healthy, forward-thinking community when they spend more money on education than they do on social issues. So that's one of our commitments. We don't receive more money for education than for social things in our community, but we prioritize our own needs in our own community and make it a priority and spend it.
We currently have an education system that spans K to three. We start our preschool at three years old, and we support students right up until university.
One of the things we don't have funding for, that we'd like to do but are unable to do at this point, is to provide some upgrading access for our students so that when we send them to university as mature students, if there are mature students out there, they have the skills. I don't want to send someone to a post-secondary institution when I'm setting them up for failure. It would be categorically wrong of me to do that. So we need funding to have pre-access programs. We need funding for upgrading so the students can be much better prepared.
At the high school level, as I said earlier, we invest the money that our community receives, and we invest some of our own money. And we have a stronger support network for our students going to elementary and secondary school. So we do that.
One of the things we've done differently is that I have three workers for 247 students on our nominal roll. I have a high school worker, because there are certain unique characteristics of a high school--I was a high school teacher. Every community needs one worker in the high school, because it's just too big a job to spread a person over six different schools. High school students are at the critical juncture in their lives when they need to have the guidance of an elder on a daily basis. We have one student support worker at the elementary level and one at the junior high level, all the way through our system.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes
Thank you.
I have to move on here, and I really do appreciate, on behalf of the committee, your attendance and the information you brought to us. As I mentioned earlier about leadership, obviously you are one of the people who has provided leadership in your community. I think the key, which you just mentioned, is that the community set education as a priority, and that's something I think is testimony to where you're going.
So thank you very much on behalf of the committee for your attendance today.
9:50 a.m.
Director of Education, Membertou First Nation
Thank you for allowing me to be here to present my views.
9:50 a.m.
Some hon. members
Hear, hear!
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes
We'll resume the meeting, please.
I just want to first say to the committee that the purpose here is not to look through the list of witnesses that has been supplied by the various parties. Simply, the chair needs direction from the committee with regard to two issues, I believe.
First, how do you want to deal with the witness list? Do you want to do that with the subcommittee, or would you rather do it as a committee of the whole?
Second, on Bill C-292, what sorts of timelines do you want on the witness opportunities?
I am going to open it up.
Madam Crowder.
9:50 a.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
I was going to suggest that since we have such an extensive list, it would make sense that we have the subcommittee meet and provide direction to the entire committee. I believe people have notes about what we had suggested in terms of a format, in order to shape the discussion and set some timeframes around this, because this could go on for many weeks, and it will be incumbent upon us to actually get to the point where we're doing the clause-by-clause on the bill.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Rod Bruinooge Conservative Winnipeg South, MB
My sentiment would be a little different, in the sense that I think we should have a discussion of the witness list as a committee of the whole. Perhaps in camera might be the best approach. There are obviously a lot of names here, and the committee overall would like to have input into whom it eventually invites to come to speak to us.
In terms of the timeframe, I don't see why we couldn't be moving toward the end of December in terms of being able to wrap up our discussions on Bill C-292.
9:50 a.m.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have a preliminary question. How many days do we want to set aside for the review of Bill C-292? My answer to this question and the answer of the Bloc Québécois would be a day or two at the most.
What is the goal? Personally, I think that Mr. Martin wants the House to vote as soon as possible on this bill and that it will be reviewed as fast as possible in committee. I may be wrong.
If this is the case, I want some explanations. Obviously, we all know the Kelowna Accord, since a lot was said about it. I confess that I do not feel like spending a month reviewing this bill, since we agreed on another priority. I am very honest when say this. I remind you that people around this table have decided that our next priority after post-secondary education would be housing.
You should remember that this issue was the central focus of discussions on the final day of the First Nations Socioeconomic Forum in Mashteuiatsh. We have things to say.
The Kelowna Accord is a reality. Anyway, I ask my friends from the Liberal Party: how many days do you want to spend on this review?