Evidence of meeting #27 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was reserve.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Not enough.
You have very strong views and that's apparent. We've met before, and you know there is much discussion as to who you represent. When you put these views forward, I ask you, on what basis do you do it? Is it based on consultation with community groups? Is it a small working group that you have? How do you do that, and how do you come to your views?
You speak frequently of representing most aboriginal peoples, south of 60 certainly. From where do you get your authority to do that?
National Chief, Congress of Aboriginal Peoples
Basically, we are made up of provincial organizations from coast to coast. They have annual assemblies where people can get together and discuss and pass resolutions, similar to other political parties.
It's basically a method of consultation. I attend those provincial assemblies when they occur from coast to coast. It gives us an opportunity to speak with the people. Resolutions are passed, and we act upon those resolutions.
With respect to representation, we have always said that we advocate on behalf of the rights and interests of people, because even though our provincial organizations have membership lists, people, regardless of whether they are members of an organization, for example, or not, when they enter the building of one of our provincial affiliates, if they are in need and the services are available, they get serviced. That's very well documented.
So we make no distinction with respect to direct representation. Our provincial affiliates provide programs and services to people regardless of whether they are members of the organizations or not, because as aboriginal peoples, we cannot require people to become members, just as we cannot require mainstream Canadians to become members of any political party if they don't wish to do so.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
As just a quick question, how do you get your authority to speak for the reorganization of what you are proposing to happen in first nations communities on reserve? From where do you get that base of authority and support and consultation? I don't understand that.
National Chief, Congress of Aboriginal Peoples
I'm not sure it's a question of authority. I think it's a question of common sense.
I'm a status Indian. I'm from a reserve. Of course, I live off reserve. This is just a means of providing solutions, because in my young life and young career, I haven't heard many solutions in the past ten years. I hear a lot of rhetoric. I hear a lot of people--leaders--calling for more money, calling for more funding, because that's going to solve the problems, but money is not going to solve the problems. It's leadership that will solve the problems, and it's solutions and debating those solutions that will make things happen.
So as to my authority, first of all, I'm elected, as you are, and that's the basis upon which I act.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes
--but I think that's the keyword. You were duly elected. We are duly elected. That's how we get our authority.
Mr. Lemay.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
I was listening to the translation; it was very interesting.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
How come you don't have the translation, Jean?
This is your French course this morning.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
I speak French, but it is very important that I understand everything.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
I know how important my comments are.
Mr. Chair, I hope this interruption does not cut into my speaking time.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes
Just a few minutes ago, somehow, somebody switched something, because they were on the one channel and now they've moved to another.
Would somebody check on that, please?
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
First of all, I thank you for being here this morning. My questions will more likely be for Mr. Brazeau.
I come from the Abitibi—Témiscamingue riding, and my colleague Yvon is from Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou. We therefore know how important native friendship centres are. We should in no way call them into question. If ever you have problems getting help, let us know.
Mr. Brazeau, I have a very specific question to ask you. If tomorrow the model government opposite, which recognizes the Quebec nation, recognized off reserve Aboriginals and abolished, at your request, the Indian Act, would that, in your opinion, abolish reserves?
Patrick Brazeau
On the one hand, that would not abolish reserves, because people would continue to live in their current communities. On the other, they would form a nation that would include the territorial lands of the nation in question.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
I would like to point out a problem to you, Mr. Brazeau. I do not want to interrupt you, but you should read the Canadian Constitution and, more specifically, section 91 of the Indian Act. It is clearly stated that if you abolish the Indian Act, you also abolish reserves, in principle; there would no longer be any. I am a lawyer and have pleaded cases up to the Court of Appeal. I know that there would no longer be any reserves.
Two rulings by the Supreme Court have just confirmed this, regarding aboriginal women's real property rights. That was in 1986. Since that time, aboriginal women have fought for real property rights... And the model government, which recognizes the Quebec nation, has recently struck a committee to study those rights. Clearly, if we abolish the Indian Act, there will no longer be any reserves.
We can talk about the Algonquin Anishinabeg, who are right in the heart of my region, Abitibi. Why would they not create a grand council of the Anishinabeg nation, as the Attikamek grand council has just done, in order to pool their claims? Why not? Because you assume that the Indian Act has to be eliminated?
Patrick Brazeau
Absolutely. This is nothing new. In fact, it was recommended by the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples 10 years ago. Rodolfo Stavenhagen, the UN special rapporteur on the human rights and fundamental freedoms of indigenous peoples, has said that the right to self-government cannot be applied to the current reserve system; it applies to a nation. The Indian Act therefore needs to be abolished.
Abolishing the reserve system would, ultimately, be beneficial because young people on reserves have no hope. They do not have access to education, and there is no housing. Will the government invest more money in a dysfunctional system?
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
I wanted to hear you on that because it is far removed from Kelowna, although somewhat related. I agree with you to say that there will have to be such a debate, but aboriginal communities will first have to discuss this amongst themselves. All the chiefs that I have met, whether legitimate or not, told me that they wanted to keep the reserve system. We cannot act against their will. So what do we do?
Patrick Brazeau
The solution is very simple: you go over the heads of chiefs and consult the people in the communities. I said that many chiefs in this country exert control over their people. I do not have proof of this. There are things I will keep silent today, but that will come out eventually.
That being said, it is the people who have to be consulted. And I will not hide my intentions. In 2001, we worked with the liberal government on the Governance Bill. We supported that bill because it would have led to changes in the communities, making chiefs more representative of the people they represent.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
But that was provided for in Kelowna. Money was set aside to ensure the responsibility of band councils.
I have another problem for you; this will be the last of four. You spoke of eliminating the Indian Act; we know your position. You speak of establishing their jurisdiction. Who is responsible for whom? The answer is clearer in Quebec, in the Quebec nation. I do not know if that is the case elsewhere in Canada, but in Quebec, aboriginals living on reserves are under provincial jurisdiction. That is clear, the Appeal's Court has ruled in that sense. Here, you are right, because when aboriginals fall under Quebec jurisdiction, for example, for health care, less money goes into the reserves. I agree with that.
Patrick Brazeau
I have to point out that there is currently a case before the courts, the Daniels case. It is possible that the resolution will shed light on the issue of responsibility. In our opinion, the federal government is responsible for all Canadian aboriginals.