Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 28th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

I will open the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development of Tuesday, November 28, 2006.

Committee members, you have the orders of the day before you. The first item of business will be pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), a study on expenditure plans and the effectiveness of their implementation by the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

The Honourable Jim Prentice, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, is with us until 10 o'clock, and we have further witnesses from the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. We have Michael Wernick, deputy minister; Suzanne Tining, associate deputy minister; and Jim Quinn, acting assistant deputy minister, corporate services.

Thank you, witnesses, for appearing.

We'll have a presentation by the minister, and then we'll be asking questions. As I said earlier, the minister will have to leave at 10 o'clock, so please address those questions to the minister right away so that he can answer them and then be on his way.

Mr. Minister, thank you very much for attending this meeting.

[Jim Prentice, Conservative, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm pleased to be here. I'd like to thank you and your colleagues for permitting me to appear again before the committee.

Earlier this month I had the opportunity to meet with you to discuss the main estimates of the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs. Today we'll be discussing the supplementary estimates.

You will recall that the total spending in the main estimates for the department was $6.3 billion, which was roughly $366 million or 6.2% higher than last year's figure. This spending reflects the government's focused approach to improving the socio-economic conditions of first nations and aboriginal peoples and taking specific action to try to close the gaps between aboriginal peoples and other Canadians on issues such as education, housing, health care, and other key elements of productive and fulfilling lives. In effect, Mr. Chairman, the main estimates represent a first step for Canada's new government.

Our second step is the 2006 federal budget. Earlier this year, the Minister of Finance announced that he would allocate an additional $3.7 billion to help improve the lives of aboriginal peoples and northerners. This new funding included $450 million over two years, with $300 million ongoing to help aboriginal peoples access supplies of clean drinking water; enhance on-reserve housing; and create valuable social programs for aboriginal students, women, children, and families. In this first year, that included $150 million, and it included $300 million in the subsequent year.

The budget also included up to $300 million to help northerners build and repair housing; up to $300 million for housing for aboriginal people off reserve; and up to $500 million over 10 years relating to the Mackenzie Valley socio-economic fund, the purpose of those moneys being to offset the potential socio-economic impacts. It also included $2.2 billion to resolve the legacy of the Indian residential schools, which you may wish to speak to today.

Since you must continue to work with our aboriginal, provincial and territorial partners on identifying the best ways to allot these substantial resources, the government will submit this budget funding for parliamentary approval not only through this set of supplementary estimates, but also the through main estimates and supplementary estimates that will come forward for the 2007-2008 fiscal year, and for fiscal years beyond that.

As I stated, Mr. Chairman, the 2006-07 main estimates and the 2006 budget are the first two major steps in the funding process. The supplementary estimates for the fiscal year represent the next important step.

I'm pleased to report that the supplementary estimates provide $196 million that Canada's new government will invest this fiscal year to improve the lives of aboriginal peoples and northerners.

These funds will enable us to make substantial progress in several areas in which I have direct responsibility. Then my officials and I will be happy to take questions on any of the specific line items listed in the supplementary estimates, but I would like to touch on several of the more noteworthy items.

Dealing first with emergency requirements, I'd like to draw your attention to the single largest item, more than $67 million in the supplementary estimates, which was to help first nations communities address urgent and critical needs brought on by fires, floods, and evacuations.

This specific investment will also assist residents of remote and isolated communities who suffered undue hardship as a result of rising fuel costs.

As I recall, there were some 54 first nations affected by these kinds of circumstances, close to 96,000 people affected in one way or another.

The second line item relates to the issue of water, Mr. Chairman. In the spring budget we designated $60 million over two years to implement an action plan that ensures residents of first nations communities can enjoy greater access to safe drinking water.

You will note a line item in the supplementary estimates of more than $22 million. This funding, which tops up the year's basic budget of the department in this area, has enabled us to put in motion our comprehensive and sustained action plan on drinking water in first nations communities. I would be pleased to speak to the progress we're making there.

The plan we have put forward establishes a protocol that sets standards for the design, the construction, the operation, and the maintenance, as well as the monitoring of drinking water systems. It mandates training for all operators of facilities and a regime to ensure qualified operators oversee all water systems.

It enabled us to form a panel of experts to consult with the government on an appropriate long-term regulatory framework to govern drinking water in first nations communities, and it commits the government to making regular reports on our progress on these and other related matters.

While more work remains to be done to improve access to safe drinking water in First Nation communities, we are making real progress right now. In fact, throughout the summer and fall, I travelled to First Nations communities throughout the country to celebrate the opening of eight new or revamped water-treatment facilities. I expect to participate in more of these important community events in the months to come.

In addition to major investments relating to emergencies and water supplies, we have invested $6 million to operate and maintain dozens of shelters and related programs for victims of family violence in first nations communities. We have set aside $3.8 million to construct or renovate new schools in first nations communities in Nova Scotia, Alberta, and Newfoundland and Labrador.

We have made a number of targeted investments that will enable several northern and first nations communities to respond directly to specific health and infrastructure concerns.

And with respect to matrimonial real property, we've devoted some $8.4 million to fund the extensive consultations that will help us develop an effective and sustainable solution to the challenges relating to on-reserve matrimonial real property.

When the process is finished, I will use the results of those consultations as the basis of legislation I intend to present to the House early in 2007.

Let there be no doubt, Mr. Chairman: Canada's new government is acting forcefully and enthusiastically to fulfil the commitment it has made to the aboriginal peoples and northerners, and addresses the immediate concerns of aboriginal and northern communities. We have set clear goals; we are working with partners; and we are making pragmatic investments—investments such as those laid out in the main estimates, in our first budget, and the supplementary estimates.

Even in the short term, since I was last before the committee, the new government has made steady and significant progress.

For instance, we received and are now reviewing the report prepared by Mr. Alan Pope, who I had appointed as a special federal representative to examine options relating to the Kashechewan community to find a sustainable solution for that community.

We are also making progress in the field of employment. Last week I signed an agreement to work together to develop a partnership with two Nova Scotia organizations for aboriginal employment.

We've introduced legislation that would enable interested first nations in British Columbia to design and deliver the high-quality education that their communities so richly deserve. I'm pleased to report to you on the progress we are making on that front with other provinces as well.

Later today I will receive the report of the Auditor General of Canada on the B.C. treaty process. I intend to closely look at this report and will seriously consider all of the recommendations.

Furthermore, my department's performance report for the last fiscal year was tabled last week. This is a crucial accountability document that measures our progress openly and honestly and presents the results of our work to Canadians in a clear and transparent manner.

Mr. Chairman, I can assure the committee the progress that has been made clearly evident over the past several weeks will continue in the months to come.

This Friday, I will be in Kujuuak, in northern Quebec. I know Mr. Lévesque is coming. There may be other people at the table who will be there as well.

We will be signing the Nunavik Inuit land claims agreement. This is the last of the Inuit land claims agreements of Canada. I wouldn't say it represents closure, but it represents the completion of the claims process with the Inuit people of Canada.

I also expect to go to British Columbia several times in the coming months to participate in announcements related to the settlement of land claims in the province.

My department will continue to work in collaboration with aboriginal partners to increase the supply of affordable housing for aboriginal peoples on reserves, in urban areas and in the north.

As I mentioned, I will introduce legislation to resolve legal challenges relating to on-reserve matrimonial real property. The government will make specific structural reforms within the machinery of government, reforms that will enable us to take full advantage of investments in education and aboriginal economic development.

In fact, Mr. Chairman, I'm pleased to report to the committee that Aboriginal Business Canada and SchoolNet, two extraordinarily successful initiatives, will be transferred from Industry Canada to my department, effective December 1. I am convinced that consolidating aboriginal education and economic development functions, having them all in one department under the supervision of one minister and one deputy minister, will enable us to put in place a more unified, coherent, and effective approach to aboriginal education and economic development. I can tell members of the committee that in my travels across the country, I don't think I met a single chief who was satisfied with the separation of Aboriginal Business Canada and SchoolNet from the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs. This reconsolidation has been an important step.

In closing, Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank you and your colleagues for inviting me to appear before the committee today. I place great value on our ongoing dialogue and appreciate your engagement on the important issues we've raised today.

I would also like to thank you for your report on aboriginal post-secondary education. Your active participation on this and on many other issues will be essential as we continue to make clear and steady progress on helping aboriginal peoples and communities overcome the challenges they face.

I thank you as well in advance for your work and cooperation in dealing with the British Columbia school legislation that is now before the House.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd be delighted to respond to questions and comments from committee members.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

I'll turn to Madam Neville, please.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Russell has two specific questions, and then I'll take it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Mr. Russell, please.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Good morning, Minister Prentice. We're glad to have you here again.

I have a couple of specific questions.

In Labrador, in the Innu community of Sheshatshiu, there's been ongoing trouble regarding the school in the community. It's dilapidated. It is not appropriate for the Innu children in that particular community, and kids have been taken out of the school.

There seems to be ongoing toing and froing between the provincial government and the federal government. There was a commitment some time ago, as I understand it, to build a new school, and it's desperately needed. The children need it. The community needs it.

Can you give me a quick update on where the federal government is in regard to the school in Sheshatshiu?

[Jim Prentice, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

Certainly. I can tell you that within a month or so of becoming minister, I met with Mr. Rideout, who is the Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs in Newfoundland, and his officials. We had about a four- or five-hour session, and we focused on all of the unfinished business and the frustrations they had experienced in Labrador and Newfoundland with respect to this department. That happened back in February and March. Since then, we have made considerable progress.

With respect to Sheshatshiu, there were two significant issues before us. One was the dedication of reserve land in the community and that has been ongoing for a long time. There has been toing and froing, to use your words. I resolved we would get that tidied up and get the reserve land transferred. My understanding is that process is largely completed. Essentially it has been taken care of.

The second issue, as you pointed out, was the concern regarding the school. The budget allocations that the supplementary estimates speak to include the school in Sheshatshiu. You'll see an amount in the supplementary estimates, as I recall, of about $3.8 million. That is the amount in the supplementary estimates for this year. The total amount being spent on these school projects is $47 million. The $3.8 million is the only sum that could be spent in the time available, given Canadian construction seasons. The money has been budgeted, allocated, and, with respect to the Sheshatshiu school, we're moving full steam ahead.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Is that going to be 100% funded by the feds now?

[Jim Prentice, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

I think the province is participating, although as I recall we are building the school--the capital cost. There is participation on the part of the province in the programming and the educational programs themselves.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Is the plan for 2007?

[Jim Prentice, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

The construction?

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Yes.

[Jim Prentice, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

I believe some of the construction has started, and it will proceed apace in the next two years.

[Michael Wernick, Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

If I could add, my understanding is that the cost sharing would be fourteen from us, the federal government, and four from the province. They're doing the advance work now to hit the next construction season.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you.

Ms. Neville.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing and making yourself as available as you do. I certainly appreciate it.

I'd like to focus in on the dollars for water, and I'm having some difficulty understanding what the amounts are and where they're coming from. In response to a request for information from Mr. Lemay, we have an indication that there is a decrease in spending in water from dollars allocated in a previous budget in 2003. There have been announcements made without any additional funding attached to them. I wonder if you could provide some overall clarity to the whole funding of water for us.

[Jim Prentice, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

Absolutely. I'll focus on your question relating to the dollars. I think you're aware of the action we've announced with respect to water and the steps that are going on with various initiatives. I can tell you that we are making progress.

When I became the minister, the number of high-risk communities was 193. We've reduced the number of high-risk communities to 131 over the course of the last seven months. By no means is the job complete, but we have made pretty substantial progress. You'll appreciate that in some of these cases, particularly where new infrastructure is required, you cannot identify a source water location, design a plant, construct a plant, and open a plant within six or seven months. Sometimes it's a multi-year process. We are satisfied that we are making progress.

The total amount from now until 2006-07 is $306.2 million that will be spent on drinking water. Some of that is derived from the supplementary estimates and some of it is dollars that have been in the A-base funding of the department.

To clarify one thing—and I think you referred to Monsieur Lemay—the amount that is being spent on water is not decreasing by any means. That is completely not the case. If you go far enough out into the future and look at budgetary expenses over 10 years into periods that we're not budgeting for, it remains to be seen how much will be allocated, but the amount that is being spent by the Government of Canada this year, next year, and the year after that is increasing.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Could we get an actual progress report from your department on where the moneys have come from over the last year, where the moneys are coming from now, and how they're being spent? I'm really finding not much clarity in it.

I also want to know.... We are hearing of moneys being diverted from other capital projects to fund water initiatives. How widespread is that? Perhaps you could elaborate on that.

[Jim Prentice, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

That is not happening. The money that is budgeted and allocated for water is being spent on water, and we've increased the amount that is being spent on water.

There were rumours at one point, for example, that the school projects—

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

That's correct.

[Jim Prentice, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

—that Mr. Russell and I spoke of had been cancelled or deferred so that the dollars could be applied to the water initiative. That has not happened. I made sure that did not happen. And I've dealt with the people who made statements that it was going to happen. So that is not what has taken place.

We've preserved the integrity of the envelope for issues like schools. In fact, we're spending more money on schools than previously, and we've increased the amount on water.

In terms of your request that we table a progress report, if you will, I'm pleased to do that. We're working on something that would bring this information to the committee, and I'm happy to table it here.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

Do I have more time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

No, you don't.

Mr. Lemay.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Good morning, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here. I have several questions to ask you. I will ask all my questions at once so we do not lose track of where we are in the to and fro of questions and answers.

First, I should point something out. For someone sitting at this table looking at this for the first time, the way the line items are broken down is unusually complex. I do not know if you can suggest to your colleague at Treasury Board or the Department of Finance that there be a much better breakdown of this with far fewer figures repeated from one page to the next.

I ended up finding questions to ask because I went further than the first couple of pages, and you will see why.

I would like to talk quickly about water. Minister, it seems—and you can tell anyone this— that there have been agreements between municipalities in Quebec. Obviously, I am referring to Quebec as a nation.

I am pulling your leg. It is a joke.

Agreements must be entered into between various municipalities and neighbouring aboriginal communities to provide water and treat sewage. I hope that happens. I think that would be a good step in the right direction.

Now let's turn to the appropriations that need to be adopted. That is why we are here today, and I have three questions I would like to ask.

First, on the consultation and policy development fund for issues surrounding matrimonial real property, there is $6.38 million paid solely—and I am saying solely—in contributions. I would like to have more details on these contributions. Who are these sums being paid to? And what is the purpose of these contributions?

There is something else a little lower on the same page.

Colleagues, if you are on page 1, you need to go to the pages which refer to voted appropriations. That is really today's issue.

[Jim Prentice, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

Mr. Lemay, you have a good sense of humour, but what page are you on?