Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 10th, 2006

[Gary Merasty, Liberal, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

You made a comment, which I agree with more than 100 percent, that the current methodologies and current data that you take and work with sometimes bury the real picture in different regions of the country—and even more deeply in different tribal councils, and even more deeply in different communities. So what you end up having after you take the highs and you take the lows is a below-average figure, and then you paint the picture of the conditions, because that's the way the data works. Politicians tend to take that and, unfortunately, may not use it in the best way, or take it too literally without understanding its depth.

A bigger issue that is related to the parliamentary secretary's question is not what you need, but what we can provide to the aboriginal communities to do their own research and development. Right now they do not get research and development dollars.

I'll give you an example. We did this education indicators report of our tribal council of 33 schools, who are almost 50% of the on-reserve population in Saskatchewan, and there was no money anywhere to do it, so we took money from health and from another program and another program to actually do what was important. We came up with some demographic pictures, but not until we got done did we get some funding for it. It's important at the end of the day, because then communities take ownership of their research suggesting what they need to do to come up with solutions for their own issues.

Another example is the Northern Inter-Tribal Health Authority, which established a surveillance unit in northern Saskatchewan that talked about TB rates and immunizations. Once the 50 or so communities there realized they had the lowest immunization rates for newborns, having that data in hand, they designed a response because they took ownership and responsibility. Now those northern first nations communities have the highest rates of immunization in the country, even higher than the province of Saskatchewan.

So it's not what we can provide, but that we provide the first nations, Métis, and Inuit communities the ability to come up with their own solutions once they have developed the data. Then as a data geek I'll take that data and do much more wonderful things with it and get much more accurate pictures.

So research and development funding is absolutely critical. Without that, you never get to see the best practices, because they're always buried so deep.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Good point.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

I'll comment on that also.

I think I'd agree with my honourable colleague. To some extent, I think the bigger issue is perhaps actually putting more funds in the hands of those who make decisions at the band level, so that the leadership can say, well, I'd perhaps like to research something, but as the elected leader I think this is the direction we need to go in. So it would be a combination of both research and putting the tools in the hands of the aboriginal leadership.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Ms. Karetak-Lindell.

[Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Liberal, Nunavut, NU]

I'm very pleased to hear that you're looking at different ways of analyzing the data you get because when you ask who defines “well-being”.... I was just telling Todd we like to say we didn't know we were poor until someone told us we were poor. We like to say that in the north because technically that's true. As long as we were healthy, happy, and the caribou didn't bypass us and we could get a good living off the land, that was okay, until someone came in and decided that because we didn't have grade 12 diplomas, because we didn't know how to do this, this, and that, and we didn't have social insurance numbers, we were like a third-world country. So you really need to be careful about what conclusions you come to because of data.

We've seen studies like these many, many, many times. I have to say, and maybe out of disrespect, I call them the Globe and Mail doom and gloom types of statistics. That's what I've seen before, and it paints a very dire picture.

Yes, we need a lot of help in the communities, but it always fails to really bring out the hope and optimism of the people, the people who are working so hard to improve life. You don't get that in statistics and data, and that's why I always say, as Gary said, you have to be very careful. It's good for us to get statistics so we can then use them to get better services, better health care, better education, and understanding, but it really depends on how you present the data.

I'm very thankful for what you gave me, and some of it I'll probably have to digest a little more because some of the terms...if you're not using them all the time, you're not sure you're getting the actual picture. Anyway, thank you for the information.

[Eric Guimond]

You're welcome.

I agree with you, it's important to have a balanced approach when one looks at data, and not just look at the dark, gloomy side. One of the ways we do it--and I've done it here, to some extent, because of time--is we look at things over time. We don't just focus on a snapshot because the snapshot will automatically focus on the differences, on the gaps. That's why, when I was talking about the HDI, I said, yes, okay, there's a gap, but wait a minute, there's an improvement, and that's a message that balances that dark and gloomy idea; this gap is closing. So I totally agree with you that it's important, when we present data, to have a balanced perspective, because there's information from both perspectives to be gained and shared.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you.

Mr. Lemay is the last one, and then we will run out of time here.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I think that my question is appropriate, Mr. Chair. What is the next step? I understand that you want more information, but what are you going to do now?

[Eric Guimond]

Currently, our work is focusing on the impact of migration on community well-being. We are also conducting an economic analysis of supply and demand on the labour market. The Canadian population is aging, and there will be a high demand in terms of jobs. The aboriginal population is young, so it has much to offer.

We're also interested in housing needs, but we're taking a prospective approach, in other words we will make projections with regard the population and housing for all aboriginal groups throughout Canada, both on and off-reserve, etc. We are working in cooperation with CMHC, in particular. This is a very broad overview.

Obviously, we are continuing to dig into the issue of community well-being. We hope to obtain case studies that more closely examine the factors related to the success of some communities and the fact that some communities are not as successful as others. Such analyses are more qualitative, with, for example, focus groups, and this requires resources. That is why they are mentioned in the second bullet on my list.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you. We'll wrap up now.

Thank you, Mr. Guimond and the other department heads, for being here today.

Make sure you get your priority list in, please, so that we can deal with those before the next meeting.

Thank you very much. The meeting is adjourned.