Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 12th, 2008

[Jerome Berthelette]

Mr. Chairman, that's correct. As I said earlier, I think it's really something the committee will want to explore in some detail with Indian Affairs: why they have to make the cut, and what, from their point of view, they think would be the impact on the first nations, and what, from their point of view, they think are some strategies that could help minimize the impact on communities as a result of taking into account the children's special allowance.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Thank you.

We've completed two rounds, and at this point, if there are members who still have questions, maybe they could just indicate to me, rather than going through the roster.

Monsieur Lemay or Ms. Crowder, do you have any further questions? No?

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I want to put my questions to the minister, and there are many of them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Okay.

Does anyone else from the...?

Okay. Well, with that—

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Can I just ask one question?

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Yes, Ms. Neville.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

It's just a quick question for clarification, Mr. Berthelette.

Did you say that the Alberta model is still being funded at a 6% capacity?

[Jerome Berthelette]

Yes, Mr. Chairman, that's correct. The Alberta model still uses 6% children in care as the basis for the funding that will be provided to first nations agencies.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

And do you have any figures indicating what the reality is in Alberta?

[Jerome Berthelette]

No, Mr. Chairman. Our range is 0% to 28%; you can get a range like that, probably, in Alberta as well, from a small number of children in care to a relatively large number. You can find that range in Alberta.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Do you have any indication as to why Alberta was chosen as the pilot project? Was there a rationale developed for that?

[Jerome Berthelette]

All I can say is that, as we noted in the report, both B.C. and Alberta brought to the attention of Indian Affairs the fact that the agencies were not able to provide the full range of services. From what I saw in looking at the files, Alberta, on a number of occasions, made presentations to the government and to Indian Affairs about its differential response model and the positive results it was getting with the differential response model. Because they were concerned about the situation on reserve, I think it's fair to say that they pressed the government to do something about.... Alberta did try...[Technical difficulty--Editor]

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Do you have an indication that these kinds of things are being done by other provinces?

[Jerome Berthelette]

The only indications we have are that B.C. and Alberta are making these formal statements to the Department of Indian Affairs about the situation in their particular provinces.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Mr. Campbell, you'd like to make a comment?

[Ronnie Campbell]

Mr. Chairman, if I may, if you'd indulge for 30 seconds, I'd like to say a couple of things. One is that a number of the questions today have been in relation to information we think could be better provided by the Department of Indian Affairs.

If I may be so bold, to make your meeting with them flow a little more easily, you may want to consider capturing that list and asking them to bring some of that stuff in advance. I know when officials come you ask for information and they say they'll get it to you, but your members may have already identified some pieces you want to know, and no doubt other pieces will come to mind during the hearing. You may want to give some consideration to that.

Then, finally, at the beginning of the hearing you thanked us for waiting. I'd just say no thanks is necessary. I'd like to thank you and your committee for taking up this cause and for paying attention to this particular chapter. It's undoubtedly hugely important, and I wish you all the best in your efforts.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Thank you for the advice and for the kind words, Mr. Campbell.

With that, we will complete....

Ms. Crowder.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

I wonder at what point we could talk about getting the department and some agencies here. I think there are a number of unanswered questions. Given the impact of this report, the importance of this report, and the huge population growth in the under-18s on reserve, it would seem it would be really important for us to close the loop on this particular piece and get that report on the action plan.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Okay. We can certainly discuss that in terms of scheduling. As you know, the subcommittee has identified two or three priorities we want to work through in the next short while. Next week is a break week, and then the two weeks after that are booked, I think. Certainly it's something we could consider.

Monsieur Lemay.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chairman, following Mr. Campbell's comments, I would like the department that is specifically involved in this file to be notified that today we met with representatives of the Auditor General and that we would like to meet the minister.

On Wednesday, I hope that we will not put questions to the minister that he will be unable to answer. We should not take him by surprise, we should deal openly with him. I suggest that we advise the minister that we met with representatives of the Auditor General and that we intend to come back to this subject very soon, because the survival of several first nations and communities is in jeopardy. This problem dates back to 1990, and has still not been solved.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Before I go to Ms. Neville, I know the department monitors or reads the minutes from our committee meetings, but if you would like, I can certainly communicate to the minister and bring to their attention the discussion today. I can ask them to look at the minutes of this meeting and identify some of the issues that will inevitably be raised on Thursday.

Ms. Neville.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I would especially like him to prepare his appearance before the committee to answer the large number of questions that we will be putting to him following the appearance of the representatives of the Auditor General. He should be able to identify the persons who will be able to answer the questions raised by the Auditor's representatives.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

As you know, Monsieur Lemay, when the minister appears before us on Thursday to speak on the estimates, he needs to be prepared for a very wide range of questions, including these. But having said that, I suspect when we bring his attention to today's meeting, they will pay particular attention to the questions that were raised today that our witnesses suggested would be better answered by the department.

Ms. Neville.