Evidence of meeting #34 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was 2006.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
Yes, it's about 37,000 we have no data on. It's usually on larger reserves in Ontario and Quebec.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
I'm sorry, I'm jumping around a bit because I only have seven minutes.
On page 3 of INAC and page 6 of Statistics Canada, the numbers add up differently.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Why the difference? The registered Indian from StatsCan is different from the registered--
Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
I'll say what we did, and I'll let my colleagues from Indian and Northern Affairs explain what they did.
We took this identity question. They are those people...the definition that I think I gave on page 3. So aboriginal identity--
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
I'm sorry, are you saying that INAC and StatsCan use different identity definitions?
Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
We use the same concepts; it's how people want to put those concepts together for their own policy or information needs.
NDP
Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
Maybe I'll let Indian and Northern Affairs explain.
NDP
Senior Research Manager, Research and Analysis Directorate, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Not necessarily more, because the total aboriginal population is the same--1,172,000.
We use the same three questions to build up, if I may use that expression, to that 1,172,000. It's how we break it into separate groups afterwards. Statistics Canada puts the emphasis on self-identification. We first put the emphasis on registration. Within that 1.2 million--I'll say 1.2 million to simplify--individuals, who are those who are registered Indians? That's the number on the pie chart I showed you.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
How can “registered” be different? I don't understand. You're saying self-identification registration versus actual numbers of registration.
Senior Research Manager, Research and Analysis Directorate, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
No, no, it's all census based. A person can be a registered Indian, have no first nation ancestry, not declare first nation identity, and not be a band member, because of the Indian Act before 1985.
Senior Research Manager, Research and Analysis Directorate, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Exactly. That's how you end up with some of these differences. It's where you put the emphasis first. At INAC we put the emphasis first on registration, for obvious reasons. Then within the rest of the aboriginal population we break it down based on identity.
Why are there four? There are four big NAOs, and five if you include NWAC.
NDP
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Nancy Karetak-Lindell
Jean, you've used up your seven minutes, as we speak.
We're going to the government side now. I think Mr. Clarke is starting.
Conservative
Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Thank you, Madam Chair.
This is a bit interesting for me. As my colleagues know, I come from a first nations background. My home first nation is Muskeg Lake.
But this is very interesting. Having been in the RCMP for 18 years--and the majority of my postings were on first nations reserves--I've seen the housing situation and some of the overcrowding. I've also seen it first-hand in Muskeg Lake, where I have family and relatives living on the reserve. I know the customs of first nations families. If a family member comes to a home, we don't turn them away. Our home is always open. We'll try to find a bed for them to sleep in.
In my 18 years as an RCMP member going from community to community, I've seen some of the homes. There was quite a difference from one home to the next. One home might have an elderly couple, one or two people, and it was roughly about 1,100 square feet. On the other extreme, I might see a family with five kids, but they also have extended family, brothers or sisters or parents, living in this home. A lot of these family members will migrate to the cities to look for homes or just to move away from the reserve to experience another aspect...maybe to find jobs for themselves.
The main question I have is what accounts for the decline in the percentages of those living in crowded homes over the past decade. To me, I see the decline as good news. What would your take be on this?
Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
Well, we're here to present the data and certainly to put it out there for users to look at. I'm sure, as my colleagues from Indian and Northern Affairs have mentioned, that they were going to do much more research on this. These are very high-level trends, so it's a good question. It's probably one that needs to be looked at in more detail.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Nancy Karetak-Lindell
Thank you.
Does someone from Indian Affairs want to respond to that?
Senior Research Manager, Research and Analysis Directorate, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I think you partly answered your own question when you referred to the mobility aspect. Throughout the years, in the research we've done on migration mobility, we have found that there's a lot of what we call in-and-out mobility. Housing is one element that triggers such mobility among the first nation populations, in particular.
There's a possibility also that regionally there might be some decline in fertility levels over ten years, so that could contribute also to lessening of that crowding. That would be somewhat speculative on my part, because I haven't actually looked at the data. But that could be another source of explanation with respect to that decline.
Conservative
Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Just to follow up here, from first-hand knowledge, again, I've seen first nation residents who have their own homes on the reserve. I've seen them leave their homes to migrate off the reserve. Do you have any statistics that would indicate the number of residents who had homes at one time, left, and then came back looking for newer homes or for suitable housing?
Director, Research and Analysis Directorate, Strategic Policy and Research Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
We've published lots of research on migration and mobility patterns. For the last 40 years there's been net movement from urban areas back to reserves. The reserves themselves are quite stable. The first nation population on reserve has the lowest mobility rate of any group in Canada. The highest mobility rates, though, are the actual populations in urban centres. Most of the mobility is occurring within cities and between cities.
The movement between reserves and cities exists, but the net amount has been consistent for the last 40 years back to reserves. This leaves one to try to understand the push-pull factors that make reserves more preferable to live in than cities. We have done some analysis of the reasons people move. We get that not from the census but from the Aboriginal Peoples Survey. There's a variety of patterns. Twenty-five percent of the people, for instance, who leave reserves are looking for better housing. But 25% of the people going back to reserves are looking for better housing on-reserve. There's a housing problem off-reserve as well for aboriginal populations in this country.
Another reason people leave reserves is for education and employment. There's a variety of push-pull factors that make the situation very complex.
Back to your question about diminishing crowding, it's not only a function of the population, it's also a function of the supply of housing itself. So one would have to look at the supply side over that time period as well to assess that pattern.
We've done work for the Community Well-Being Index, in which crowding is one component. That data goes back to 1981. We looked at the patterns over time. Again, it's a function of both the supply and demand sides, which makes it a bit more challenging in terms of that particular analysis.