Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 7th, 2009

[Carl Braun]

We can probably do that within a week.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Then I will attempt to convince my colleagues on committee, if they are willing to undertake this exercise, to forward that list to the department and see if we can get a commitment from them to deal with the unencumbered priority parcels according to your priorities. Is that fair enough? We'll see where that takes us.

That's it for now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Mr. Rickford now has the floor for five minutes.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I welcome all the witnesses. I'm from Kenora, where they're on Treaty No. 3, and we're neighbours. We have some mutual friends.

First of all, I have a brief comment about the committee not being engaged to the extent that our representation was made. I think we're very engaged, as I appreciated throughout this morning's energetic dialogue.

I want to focus my questions to Chief Hudson. You're at a very interesting stage as you're set to revisit a vote in July. Is that still on track?

[Chief Glenn Hudson]

We're looking at the illegal surrender of the former St. Peter's Reserve. We've already accepted and have received our financial compensation through TLE. That was last year.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Okay. So what does the next vote—according to the news release I had—accomplish?

[Chief Glenn Hudson]

Well, the vote is with respect to the illegal surrender of St. Peter's, and it is a negotiated settlement as far as the loss of use of the former St. Peter's Reserve and compensation provided for that former reserve.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Just take this next four minutes with me, Chief, if you can, to reflect back on the process.

Obviously the nation has some things they are responsible for, and we've heard some reference to some of the difficulties you have. But just as objectively as you can, what sorts of internal barriers or challenges do you face that may slow down this process, as you think back?

[Chief Glenn Hudson]

I know there was one issue I dealt with just at the airport in coming here yesterday. We established a date of this upcoming vote, June 13, and we had forwarded all the documentation and information to the department, and we obviously indicated our wishes as to who was to conduct that vote, as far as the contract goes. But it seemed that the contract was never followed through with, in terms of engaging that contractor to carry out the vote. That delayed the process, when we had spent weeks arriving at a date and determining when would be the best time for this. That process was delayed by the department here, I guess at headquarters, and I guess the region had a role to play in that, in not engaging that contractor.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Is there anything else?

[Chief Glenn Hudson]

I guess that comes to mind with respect to that illegal surrender. But on TLE, we have the largest claim in Manitoba's history—166,000 acres of land. I know the commitments that had been put in place by the former Minister Prentice were to have 150,000 acres converted each and every year over the next four years. I think we're at the fourth year of that agreement, and they've fallen short. I believe one of the main aspects in reference to some of their previous comments was the third-party interest. That takes precedence over our interest. Yet when you deal with Manitoba Hydro, as mentioned previously.... They're not engaged in this process, yet they're an arm of the Province of Manitoba, as far as a crown corporation—

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

We look to Saskatchewan, obviously. There seemed to be a better framework for streamlining a lot of that activity, and that component of the process was a little bit more successful. Do you agree with that?

[Chief Glenn Hudson]

Yes, and I think that's what needs to happen in Manitoba. Again, it needs to be the commitment from the region to see these things followed through with, because given the land quantum we have—that 166,000 acres—we'll never see that in 25 years, where that agreement states.... I know just getting 75 acres of land converted...it took Chief Nelson's community 10 years to do 75 acres, yet we're supposed to be getting 166,000 acres.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

I may have to come back to this in another round, Chief Hudson, but I want to just focus on the voting process. As you reflect back on that, what steps might you have taken, or would you take, to facilitate a higher participation by the community? It seems you were at 38% of the population and the rules require 51%. Did you want to comment on what consultative, communicative, or education process you would have gone through or you are going through now or would in the future to get voter participation up to where it needs to be?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We are out of time. I recognize there are two witnesses who wish to comment.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

My questions were directed to Chief Hudson, frankly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay, Mr. Rickford, we'll start with Chief Hudson, although we do try to recognize if other witnesses wish to have a comment.

We'll go to Chief Hudson.

Could I ask you to be very brief, Chief, and then similarly Mr. Chief?

[Chief Glenn Hudson]

I think given that the provision is under the community approval process, which is set out by the department.... For example, if we had to have 50% plus 1% in a general election, whether it's Manitoba or the federal government, would we have a government in place if we didn't achieve that percentage? We just need, I guess, in terms of those guidelines, to have them in place to reflect obviously outside provisions in dealing with elections. Of that 38% who voted, over 92% voted in favour of it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Mr. Chief, briefly.

[Paul Chief]

I will briefly reiterate exactly what Chief Hudson said, that it's ironic, or a double standard, that in first nations we need 51% of our vote to pass anything within our community's interest. Yet Canada, in its last election...what did you make? Was it a little over 7% of the actual vote? It's kind of a double standard, and I think that really needs to be looked at closely. Maybe it was 13%.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you for your comments.

Mr. Lemay, you have five minutes.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

It is a bit ironic that the Clarity Act requires us to have more than 52% in Quebec, but that debate will not happen tomorrow morning.

Two points caught my attention. One is the possible blockade of the transportation of oil and gas, given the pipelines that are coming. But it was the second point that I found most interesting.

Last week, we heard from government officials who work on this portfolio. The Auditor General appeared before us, and then, suddenly, after eight years, you heard some news. The best solution would be for us to meet at least once a year. What do you think?

Chief Nelson.

[Chief Terry Nelson]

I agree with you 100%.

In 1994 the new Minister of Indian Affairs, Ron Irwin, made a declaration to a thousand of us who were gathered in Manitoba. He said he wanted to be the last Minister of Indian Affairs. He wanted self-government for native people. He said he wanted to turn off the lights at Indian Affairs as he went out the door, when they dismantled Indian Affairs.

I think it's about 15 years later and the lights are still burning brightly at Indian Affairs, and in fact we have to use Indian Affairs a lot of times.

A lot of times the ministers do in fact make commitments. Members of Parliament want to resolve issues. Unfortunately, you have a bureaucracy that is out of control and essentially does not fulfill the wishes of the members of Parliament.

I think we should in fact be meeting more regularly. As a party to treaty, we have to take care of our side of the agreement and it is important for the crown and for the members of Parliament to take care of their side. That's critically important.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chief.

[Paul Chief]

Your comments were greatly appreciated.

It's not until we have the grasp of members of Parliament that things actually get done in Manitoba.

On your comment about meeting once a year, I would like it once a month so that we could actually fulfill our commitment.

Brokenhead has a treaty land entitlement. We've gained 4% of our treaty land entitlement in over 10 years. We have three years remaining within our agreement and it's dead and gone. So, yes, I would love to meet once a year, but I'd like to meet once a month until we get the next 96% of our treaty land entitlement completed.