Evidence of meeting #22 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was provinces.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
John Duncan Conservative Vancouver Island North, BC
Well, carry on, then, because I know that Mr. Albrecht will be carrying on my theme.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Roy, with the chair's indulgence, I'm going to set my documents aside and explore with you the concept—and I hope that's the right word—of the honour of the Crown.
I thought I understood that a directive had been sent to all departments on how to apply this concept in deliberations, discussions and exchanges with the aboriginal communities. It was a draft at that point. Has that document been finalized?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I couldn't answer you. I apologize, but I never received that document.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
In your day-to-day work, how is the concept of the honour of the Crown applied?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
In our day-to-day efforts, as I am responsible for negotiations and implementation, as I said earlier, the idea is really to always aim for a balance between the interests of the aboriginal groups and those of the federal Crown in negotiations. We also have to ensure that the aboriginal groups are well-informed and advised by experts, that they don't necessarily rely solely on the federal government's point of view, but that they seek out their own expertise.
For example, when we negotiate with them, we make sure they have legal services. If appraisal studies have to be conducted, we make sure they get the required expertise. In a ratification context, we withdraw to ensure that the first nation or aboriginal group has all the independent opinions needed to make an informed decision.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
To what extent are you responsible for ensuring that they have the necessary opinions as well as resources to obtain those opinions? Do you have to check to see that they have what it takes?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Yes.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
We don't take responsibility as such for the content of the opinions they receive, but we ensure that they have advisors. We even give them funding so that they can pay the advisors, for the expertise they need.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
They do.
Liberal
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
We have to negotiate a work plan. There are nevertheless certain limits to what we can fund.
Liberal
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Yes.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
I imagine the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs is more sensitive to this concept than other departments.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I would say that all federal colleagues understand the concept of fiduciary responsibility toward aboriginal groups.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
There have been some incidents in which aboriginal communities felt obliged to go to court to get judgments.
Why is that the case? Had the fiduciary responsibility you describe not been respected?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
No. I would say instead that those cases often involve a disagreement over the interpretation of an act or an obligation, in particular. When interpretations of the parties vary somewhat, that can result in us going to court. There may be disagreements over interpretation regarding the implementation of treaties or agreements signed in the past or quite recently.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
I'm going to ask you a question on a matter that is not in your field, Mr. Roy. I'll understand if you don't answer. If the Chair interrupts me, I'll understand as well.
You may recall that, not long ago, Public Works Canada put nine government buildings up for sale, including two in Vancouver, if my memory serves me. An aboriginal community intervened on the basis that the honour of the Crown was not being respected. Consequently, those two buildings had to be withdrawn from the sale process. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Yes, I know what you're talking about, Mr. Bélanger. However, I wouldn't say that was a matter of non-respect of the honour of the Crown. In my opinion, it's due more to the fact that the treaty negotiation or land claim involving the majority of first nations is underway in British Columbia. If negotiations are quite advanced when federal properties become available, those properties can in principle be set aside in order to settle a land claim.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Does the honour of the Crown apply only in the context of a negotiation?
