Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 28th, 2009

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Could they possibly--as would anybody who is a bit paranoid, as I am prone to be from time to time--envisage a situation in which INAC would say, “First go there before you come knocking at our door”?

[Steve Berna]

If you look at section 3 of the act, it says that nothing the FNFA does abrogates or derogates INAC's responsibilities.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I understand that. But that doesn't preclude the fact that INAC could decide that if they say they'll do it, INAC could say, “We're not abrogating our responsibilities, but first you must go there and talk to them to see if you can get some money from them.” Is that something that's been contemplated? Is that something you would encourage?

[Chief Joe Hall]

I think probably the answer is that certainly we are looking to serve all communities in Canada. I think the answer to the question is that we had to keep it optional, because there were communities and the federal government that weren't prepared to do that. They would be doing a bit of a flip if they were to suggest for a moment that now you have to go there. We're not going to turn away anybody.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I understand. You have no choice but to make it optional. You cannot force. But INAC could say, “Before you come to us, go there just to check.” Is that being contemplated, do you know?

[Chief Joe Hall]

I don't think that....

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I should ask the department.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

You're out of time now.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I'm out of time again.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Mr. Rickford for five minutes.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I just have a quick comment. Steve and Tim, you bring incredible complementary strength to this organization. I had a nice discussion with all of you yesterday, except for Chief Hall.

I'm going to try to focus my points on Deanna and Chief Hall. I want to congratulate you on your hard work on what I think is a great opportunity for first nations across Canada. There's where I'm going to come in.

You mentioned something interesting just a couple of minutes ago about nations that want to, and I'm concerned about the ones that can. I think we spoke at length about that yesterday.

I have just three quick points that I'll leave open for you to comment on. Yesterday we talked about infrastructure and about perhaps looking at enhancements to infrastructure projects. Steve, earlier your comments were about projects that I believe enhance infrastructure in the communities. But they are also key economic development projects for the nations so that they can participate more fully in their regions and perhaps in the national economy. I gave you a couple of examples in our discussion yesterday. Just narrowing this or focusing it, if you will, I am concerned--if that's the right word, but it might be too strong--about the strategies for working with communities whose revenue streams may not be as robust as some of the communities that could almost immediately participate in the kind of model being proposed here.

It goes without saying that the capacity to enjoin good governance in economic development, to have accountability that is driven by the nations, be it through this organization, if you will, and some relief from having to rely exclusively on major government departments for things like infrastructure, or certainly enhancements, are all great aspects of what you're advancing here.

Could you comment on two things? First, some of the other economic development projects that really go to helping out the nations--we talked about grocery and retail in some parts of the country--I think need to be developed more, with a stronger presence by the nations. Second are strategies for working with communities that don't have the revenue streams that, say, Westbank or some of the other nations might have.

Thank you.

[Chief Joe Hall]

Thank you for your question. I think it is a good question, because it actually gets to the point behind why we need to see an expansion, why we need to see these regulations passed--so that we can actually go to other revenue streams.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Right.

[Chief Joe Hall]

Every community has revenue streams of some sort, federal transfers of some sort, that essentially may be the sum total of funds that they receive.

I come from a small community in southern British Columbia--I'm chief of the Tzeachten First Nation--and on our board we have very close ties to all sorts of communities, no matter what size they are. Certainly we have a mandate to provide a service to all of them.

There's a catch-22 that I think is important to understand. Right now, being ready to provide services for communities that have property taxation is a good thing, but there are communities that are not in that position. The catch-22 that I'm talking about is that in order to generate sufficient wealth to get sufficient portions of a bond issuance, you need to spend money to get there. So in order to build a strong, diversified property taxation base, you need to do some investments in order to get there.

That catch-22 can be overcome, I guess, by helping those smaller communities in different areas have access to affordable capital on the market. The attraction here, as I said in my opening comments, is that those communities....

We were in the same boat. We had to pay the full bank rates, and were not eligible to get affordable capital. We had to pay the full rates for any structural amenities that we did.

At any rate, these communities, no matter where they're situated, are going to benefit from lower rates, because they'll be participating in a bond issuance.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Perhaps I can just interrupt you for one second, Chief, because you're heading to an area that's of primary concern to me.

In northwestern Ontario, obviously, we have Wasaya Airways, which has done a great job of LLP partnerships with first nations. We have a couple of forestry initiatives that Pikangikum, Wabigoon, and Eagle Lake are in. It's that access to credit, where their revenue streams from, say, Rama, and from the government--

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

You're out of time there, Mr. Rickford. You can put the question and finish up, and then we'll....

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Sorry.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I know the feeling.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Yes, but sometimes you get to ask the question, even at the end.

But that's all in the past. I'll stop there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Did you have a question, though?

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

No, that's fine, Mr. Chair. I want to respect the rules of the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Monsieur Lévesque.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Do you believe that the settlement of land claims will facilitate your fund-raising among first nations?

[Deanna Hamilton]

Yes. Any source of revenue whatsoever that they have, any secure source of revenue, it's possible for them to leverage.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you.