Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 29th, 2009

[Guylaine Roy]

It's a very popular program.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Yes, and it can help create some employment as well in terms of the safety.

I still have some time, I presume, for a short question.

Mr. Sarantakis, I wonder if you could briefly give me some information in regard to the economic action plan, on some of the programs and how that has helped in the north. I understand that all of the funds have already been allocated.

[Taki Sarantakis]

In terms of Canada's economic action plan as it pertains to the north, the largest instrument is actually the acceleration of the provincial and territorial base fund. The government, in budget 2009, offered every province and territory the opportunity to receive payments that they would have received over seven years, in fact over two years. So $175 million, instead of being presented over seven years, could have actually been accessed over two years. That's the largest single benefit for the north.

Two of the territories have access to that provision and they are now receiving probably $30 million or $40 million more, faster than they otherwise would have received it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll need to wrap it up there.

Merci, Monsieur Payne.

Welcome to the committee, Mr. Gaudet. You have five minutes.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I apologize for coming in late; I was at another committee.

Do you have any programs of study to integrate or encourage aboriginal communities in the territories to work with the Department of Natural Resources or the Department of Transportation, Infrastructure and Communities? We have not been in the far northern Territories for one or two years, but for hundreds of years.

Mr. Boerner said that researchers and scientists are needed. Perhaps the communities there should be empowered to undertake certain studies, as happens elsewhere. I would like to know what all the witnesses think.

It seems that there is no established program, but perhaps it is time for you to about the future. At present, all we think about is getting energy, minerals, diamonds and so on, but we do not think about the communities. If you keep the communities in the dark—excuse the expression, I do not mean to insult anyone—they will stay in the dark.

I find it strange that there is nothing for those communities in the $33 billion that has been allocated for the next seven years.

[Guylaine Roy]

Mr. Gaudet, the question you are asking is more related to the abilities of people in the North to participate in economic development. Perhaps this question should be asked to the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development. I do not know whether they have any programs along those lines, but it would certainly be a good question to ask them. Indian and Northern Affairs perhaps has programs too, but Transport Canada has no specific programs.

I think that your question deals with the region's economic development and the ability of people in the North to participate in that economic development and work towards it.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I find it strange that, of the three departments here—Natural Resources, Infrastructure Canada and Transport Canada—none has thought of this. I am thinking of the future; I am not thinking about today. At some point, they need to be integrated and encouraged to work.

I will give my remaining time to Mr. Lévesque.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

One minute, Monsieur Lévesque.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

You are investing money in airports. You did not mention Nunavut because you are doing it through Quebec. I was struck by the large amount being invested in Nunavut. Is this connected to sovereignty over the Arctic and its coastlines, or is this amount in part or in whole for northern development?

[Guylaine Roy]

Are you talking about the Airport Assistance Program or the $33-billion Infrastructure Canada Program?

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

In your last answer to Mr. Payne, you talked about airport assistance.

[Guylaine Roy]

I will answer your question. Luckily, I have colleagues here with the information at hand. I would like to take advantage of that to tell you how much money was invested in the three territories over the past five years under the ACAP or the Airports Capital Assistance Program. In the Northwest Territories $11 million; in the Yukon $5 million; in Nunavut $22 million. Thanks to my colleague for giving me that information.

The ACAP was implemented in the 1990s, when a new airport policy was adopted. It sought to provide assistance to local and regional airports for which the federal government had no security responsibility. We wanted remote local and regional airports to have access to funding for their security needs.

You ask whether this program was related to sovereignty. The program is available all across Canada and has no specific connection to sovereignty. It is a program that helps all the airports in the country take care of security.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Lévesque and Mr. Gaudet.

Now we'll go to Mr. Rickford for five minutes. Then we have one more questioner after that, Mr. Bevington; and if there is time, Mr. Bagnell has a very brief question.

So let's go to Mr. Rickford.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses today.

I'm going to shift gears a little bit. I wanted to delve into energy conservation and the environment, but I think, given my time allotment today, I'll just focus on the environment. If we get enough time, I'll ask some questions about the other topic, energy and conservation.

I'm the MP for the great Kenora riding. We have a lot of similarities with the areas the committee has embarked on studying. Obviously, the southern end of my riding is along the Trans-Canada Highway, but we have communities on Hudson Bay and more than 25 first nations communities that are completely isolated, with no road access. So a number of the issues we're talking about here bear great similarity to our own. So I appreciate Dennis's questions earlier, as they resonate in my riding as well.

I want to focus on the impact of some of these infrastructure projects, particularly some of the larger-scale infrastructure projects. I know there can be challenges in any riding, but up north, and certainly in the territories and beyond, we know that the impact can even be greater in terms of the effects on the migration of animals, on hunting routes, and the like.

With respect to infrastructure, Mr. Sarantakis, perhaps you can comment on whether you're doing some work in a minimal-impact way and on whether that's become necessary. And if so, you could point to a few specific examples, and then I'll move the questioning from there.

Thank you.

[Taki Sarantakis]

Thank you.

As you know, each of our projects goes through an environmental assessment at either the federal or the provincial level. It's sometimes both, but that's becoming more and more streamlined. So each of those projects is examined that way.

Typically, when most of the projects come forward for application, they have to show how they mitigate the environmental consequences of what they do. And as you know, more and more mitigation will become an increasingly important issue in the future with climate change, and things like that.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

May I interrupt you for one second? I get the EAP sense, but I think that in the north, more than ever, one of the things is that on a project-to-project basis the environmental assessment, whether it's good or not, can have an impact on another region, because the tracts of land and water here are vast. Is there any coordinated effort to read in what other projects might be doing? I know there would be limits on that, certainly, but does it occur at all?

[Taki Sarantakis]

I'm not sure I understand the last part of your question. Are you asking if projects work together in environmental assessments?

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Right. One EAP could pass in one area, but right next door it could perhaps impact unfavourably.

[Taki Sarantakis]

Environmental assessments tend to be comprehensive. They tend to look not just at the actual physical work that you're undertaking but also at its effect on the broader environment, so on the whole I would answer that yes, that kind of assessment is done.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

With respect to the first nations communities that are involved in or affected by development projects, I believe Mr. Roussel mentioned a consultative process with respect to one specific project. It involved talking with all the stakeholders. My colleague identified this one project as being possibly delayed, but in fact it was not. There was a process. Can both of you talk a little bit about the consultative process, specifically in relation to first nations communities in these regions?

[Taki Sarantakis]

Sure. Actually, there is jurisprudence on this matter. Section 35 of Canada's Constitution essentially mandates aboriginal consultation, so for every government-funded infrastructure project that potentially impacts on a first nation, the government is obligated to go forward and actively seek out those first nations for those consultations. The result is that in one way or another, virtually every infrastructure project goes through an aboriginal consultation. It can be a very elaborate and formal process.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Mr. Roussel, do you have anything to add to that?

[Donald Roussel]

No, I think Mr. Sarantakis covered it.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?