Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2009

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

You were waxing eloquent about tourism, which is our biggest industry. One of the problems we've had is that a Canadian cannot rent a car outside Canada and then drive back into Canada. This represents a huge loss of revenue. All sorts of Canadians fly to Alaska or take cruises. They rent a car in the U.S., come back to tour B.C. or Yukon, and all of a sudden they're stopped at the border. They can't do it. It's illegal. In the United States, they recently put in a regulation that allows their citizens to rent cars in Canada and drive into America. We can't do it the other way, and we're losing all sorts of revenue. Would you commit to look into that problem, if you haven't already addressed it?

[John Connell]

Yes, and it's not the first time this issue has been raised. In connection with a federal tourism strategy, we are trying to get federal departments and agencies to collaborate according to shared objectives. A component of that is getting rid of needless barriers and regulations that are inhibiting tourism. It's something we'll be speaking about with the responsible departments and agencies. We have a group of about six policy officers developing the strategy. It's based on reaching out to those other departments and agencies and having them make commitments.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Parks Canada has tremendous potential for economic development in the north. And it has done more economic development in the north than it has in most other parts of Canada. It's been great. But over the last decade there have been cuts after cuts in staff, operations, and capital. Can you offer us any hope that this trend might be reversed?

[Bill Fisher]

Certainly. I'll speak first to some of the projects that have been recently approved through the government's economic action plan, and one that--

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I'm talking about Parks Canada staff and the capital budget for Parks Canada itself.

[Bill Fisher]

Yes, Parks Canada's specific capital budget has been increased, following the 2005 budgets, and that funding has gone towards recapitalization and stabilization of cultural resources in places like Dawson and The Dredge, and more recently elsewhere with park establishment funds for places like an operations centre in Ukkusiksalik and Repulse Bay and new visitor facilities in Old Crow and elsewhere.

So there is funding available there. When new parks are created there are new funds provided for the operation of those parks. It's a big change from ten years ago, when that didn't exist, so that's been quite a good opportunity for us. The recent expansion of Nahanni is a good example.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll have to wrap it up there, Mr. Fisher. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Thank you, Mr. Bagnell.

Mr. Lemay, you have seven minutes.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you for being here.

When we embarked on this economic study of northern development, I didn't think we would get so much information. I don't know where to start, there are so many things...

Of course that's wrong, I know where to start. I am first going to quote a sentence we find in the Parks Canada document: "Environmental protection and economic development can go hand-in-hand." I have some difficulty agreeing with that statement. You are going to have to persuade me of it.

The problem is that it seems that everyone does their little thing in their own corner. All of you who are here before us and who represent Industry Canada, Environment Canada, Parks Canada, do you talk with each other, is there consultation, is there coordination, if someone wants to do some sort of development in the north, or does everyone stay in their little box? That concerns me.

I will not be going on the first trip, but I am going to go to Iqaluit. On our trip last year we went to Pagnirtung. At that time, I asked the mayor of the village, a rather elderly man, a single question. I will never forget what he told me. I asked him what was the one thing we should do for him and his community? His answer bowled me over. He told me that we should pick up our garbage. How can we do that in the north?

There are containers abandoned all along the coast. I saw dozens and dozens in Iqaluit. Everywhere I went in the north there were containers lying around. Is there some way of picking up the garbage? I'm asking you this question and I won't have any more. What can I tell the mayor of Pagnirtung? That is not really consistent with northern development.

I would like to hear comments from the Parks Canada representative first.

[Bill Fisher]

Thank you, Mr. Lemay.

First, Parks Canada works in collaboration with the other departments to do a lot of things, particularly when it comes to environmental projects. As well, we work with other organizations on economic development.

On the question of garbage in the communities and the problem of contaminated sites all across the north of Canada, we are working with the other departments to review contaminated sites and find a solution. Then, processes would have to be initiated to decontaminate the sites. Contamination is often caused by a mine located near a community like Pagnirtung or Nanisivik. We work together, not just with federal departments, but also with the territorial government.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Does someone else want to comment or answer?

[Michael Wilson]

I am going to try to answer, but I am going to speak in English to make sure I am understood.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Fine.

[Michael Wilson]

First, in terms of coordination, we do things as a government to try to make sure that we're coordinated in the north. At the deputy minister and assistant deputy minister levels, we do have committees that exist only to have departments come to them and develop joint actions and joint policies for the north. That's been active for a number of years to try to make sure we're not doing things that are counter or contrary to what other departments would be doing.

Generally, though, we do deliver our programs with either key departments that are partners or on our own, within our mandate. We coordinate with the other departments, but then we tend to deliver on our own.

We have another major new initiative for coordinating in the north around major industrial developments or major projects that are going through the environmental assessment and project approval regime--i.e., a major mine that's being developed, a port, something like that. The government recently announced a northern project management office. The purpose of that is to get all the departments that are involved in the environmental evaluation and approval of that project, be it a port or a mine, to come together and coordinate that environmental assessment process so that we're all moving it along at a diligent pace.

We've been doing that in the south for a little over a year. The government recently announced this northern equivalent that's just getting up and going now.

In terms of waste management, I guess from Environment Canada's perspective our main interest or our main mandate area of waste management in the north is on a slightly larger scale. We're involved in contaminated sites remediation in the north. The government has announced $3.5 billion to remediate contaminated sites that the federal government has an interest in.

I don't have all the statistics in front of me, but in the Northwest Territories, for instance, there are 728 sites that are being--

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I don't want to interrupt, but if Mr. Lemay wants to get a last word in on this, we're just about out of time.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I just want to clarify my question. On the question of contaminated sites, I can understand that the government is doing something. What is being done about the existing dumps where there are millions and millions of plastic bags that are blown away and end up in the very fragile environment of northern Canada? That is what I want to know, because that is of tremendous concern to me, the filth that is there.

[Michael Wilson]

I can endeavour to get back to you with a more comprehensive answer, but that would be mainly a Department of Indian and Northern Affairs and territorial government responsibility. There's little that Environment Canada would do in that area.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Can the Department of Fisheries and Oceans give a very brief answer?

Mr. Burden.

[David Burden]

Yes, thank you.

I would say the same thing as my colleagues. We speak to each other before doing our work. It is not possible for any department to do its work in the north without cooperation. As the others said, the problem of contaminated sites is still a challenge for us, but we have a program, and before 2018 we are going to do an inventory of all our sites in the north. Our program is ongoing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Lemay.

Now we'll go to Mr. Payne.... Oh, I'm sorry, it's Mr. Bevington; I'm jumping ahead.

Mr. Bevington, you have seven minutes.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thanks, Chair.

Thanks to all the departments for coming out today. As with Mr. Lemay, the questions could mount very quickly for any one of you.

I think I am going to start with the broadband questions, because I just attended a meeting this morning with the health facility people and I asked that question there: What is the answer for northern health? They said we need to have telemedicine in all these communities.

I also met recently with the president of our college system in a discussion that they are having over the development of the University of the Arctic. They are very interested in the three northern territories, in their college system, in developing a distance university linking together all these communities. Yet 25 out of 33 of our communities are not capable of the simple telecommunications distance education program that is available in most places.

Those types of things are in the public domain to provide the services for education, for health, and then as well for communication with video conferencing. We need to bring those into these northern communities in a big way. These are things that are absolutely essential.

When you're talking about your program here, with the 1.3 megabytes per second, will that deliver telehealth to these communities?

[Shari Scott]

The benchmark of 1.5, download at 1.5 megabits, was set as a benchmark for quality video conferencing, to be able to allow quality video conferencing to occur.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

So 1.5 is the low mark, but you have a 1.3 megabit....

[Shari Scott]

No, it's 1.5.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Okay. I think what we need to see in the north with broadband service is this type of service that allows this kind of thing. Is that going to be part of your perspective in looking at these different programs? I would say, as well, because it is such a public concern--health, education, communication--you're looking at 50%. So you're bringing in private partners. How does that work out when we are talking about public health services?

[Shari Scott]

In terms of the broadband program, it was a contribution program aimed at the private sector, recognizing that they may not have the capital in place or a business case to go on their own to these areas. So we will contribute up to 50%, which in some cases may not be enough, which is why we've been working very closely with territorial governments and provincial governments.

The 1.5 was set as a benchmark to bring rural and remote areas up to the same comparable service that can be obtained in the near urban areas.

In terms of connectivity, the Yukon is actually fairly well connected with DSL, to 99% of the population. The Northwest Territories also has some land line infrastructure in place. Nunavut is a larger challenge, in that it only has a satellite backhaul.

We are trying to have as much flexibility in the program as possible so that we can work with other programs, such as the national satellite initiative, to increase available band width.