Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 17th, 2009

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

In the YT there are two. There's Old Crow....

[Stephen Mills]

There's Old Crow and Dawson City.

To get the jet to land in Old Crow we had to get some turn buttons put onto the runway. The Yukon government came through on that. So there were some upgrades. They're 5,000-foot strips. They have the capability of having jets or other turbo props. We've been in discussions, but that's a fairly big infrastructure cost for an isolated community. I think that's a logical next step. That could greatly improve the transportation network within the Yukon.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

You talked about the Canada Border Services Agency issue when travelling to Alaska and back. I guess that's a Homeland Security issue as well. I was wondering if you view it as being an agreement with one or both. I was wondering if you've initiated those conversations and discussions with the Government of Yukon.

[Stephen Mills]

The Yukon government is well aware of these issues, and so is our member of Parliament and other members. It's a changing rule. It's not as much Canadian border security on this issue as it is Homeland Security.

Since 9/11, especially, we've had to equip our aircraft, Hawker Siddeleys--there are no others in the world--with certain barriers between the cockpit and the aircraft. For us to try to engineer that for our own aircraft was in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. That still may not be enough, because now, with the cost of putting security screenings into remote airports, it doesn't make sense in Old Crow to have security screening.

We've always talked about how to develop this east-west sort of travel arrangement versus north-south. We're slowly being driven out of the market of Alaska simply because the increased security requirements make it next to impossible for our airline to do that.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thanks, Mr. Duncan.

Now we'll go to Mr. Bevington.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

We are going to come to grips with the issue of the lengthening of the runways in the Northwest Territories very shortly, because they won't even be able to utilize the plane completely. They will have to have a smaller number of people on the plane because the airstrip is only a certain length. This is a new regulation, which I've been bringing up at regular intervals with Transport Canada. It's a problem, and it affects many runways in the Northwest Territories and in Nunavut.

I don't think it affects anyone here. Does it affect Old Crow?

[Stephen Mills]

There are a couple of things that are coming up that could.

Transport Canada, after the Air France aircraft incident in Toronto, is talking about having these sort of run-off sections on the ends of runways for safety. We don't have that ability in Old Crow. We have the river at both ends. So it's not an option. There are some potential rulings that could come forward that would effectively shut down any aircraft coming into our own community of Old Crow. As these rules change, they sometimes change the operating length of a runway. It may be 5,000 feet, but they may reduce the operating length.

There are issues, but we're making some suggestions. For example, gravel reduces the effective use of the maximum weight you can have on an aircraft. At least in the Yukon, all our runways are quite a bit longer than those in smaller communities in the Northwest Territories, and I think improving them to gravel and other things could help us effectively utilize those airstrips.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

I used to think our airfares were really high until I flew from Ottawa to Sault Ste. Marie on Bearskin Airlines and realized that these guys are actually charging more per passenger mile than we are experiencing in a lot of places in the Northwest Territories. The small aircraft flights are just out of line.

I want to talk a bit about tourism. Somebody visiting the Northwest Territories, Nunavut, or Yukon...that's a net addition to the rest of the country. I just want you to elaborate on that, because it's an important point for us right across this country. The attraction in the north of Canada...people come through the south to the north. Tourists to the south are not going to impact on our economy, but our economy is always a great addition to the southern economy. That's something that needs to be highlighted.

There is just another point you might want to talk about in terms of heritage. We have these huge territories and very small populations. There is great history and great geographic, historical perspectives; yet, as you say, there are 25 museums up here to try to capture that history. When we have these federal programs that are on a per capita basis, they simply don't work here.

Maybe you could comment a little bit on that.

[Marc Johnson]

First of all, if Stephen will abide, we do have direct flights where people come here from Frankfurt once a week, directly into Whitehorse. So we don't actually have to add to the southern tourism point of view.

In relation to your other point, a lot of people have suggested that, yes, we actually get a lot of heritage funding up here, and frankly, it's paid off. I have worked quite a bit with national groups and other groups, all of whom know about (a) Dawson, and (b) the Yukon government historic sites branch. And they're tremendously impressed with how that works. I can't give them enough accolades in terms of how the Yukon government, in particular, operates their heritage department. It works very well and it's known across the country.

On the other hand, from a purely financial point of view, in dollars per person, heritage works under the same restrictions as other things. Your phone company in the south charges according to how much it costs to get to your house. My house is 200 kilometres from here, and it costs a lot for the phone company to get there; consequently, the phone rates are high. Infrastructure costs are high. The cost of heating a building to hold your artifacts is high. So that extra money that we get is consumed remarkably quickly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll have to wrap it up here.

I just have a couple of follow-up questions, if I could take this next spot. I don't have any other speakers on the list, so I'll just barge in here.

Mr. Johnston, at one point you mentioned this heritage trust of $5 million. Do you know how long ago that was? We might just want to try to track that down.

[Marc Johnson]

It was two years ago. It was funding specifically set aside for a national trust. If you want to refer to that, talk to the Heritage Canada Foundation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

All right, thank you.

To Sandy and Mary Ann, has there ever been any work done on recognizing the Klondike as a Yukon experience? When you look at the markets, is there an understanding that the Klondike and Yukon are synonymous in that sense?

[Sandy Hachey]

I'm not sure where it's at right now, but I know even as far back as eight to ten years ago there were initiatives undertaken to actually begin trademarking the words “Yukon” and “Klondike”, and those kinds of phrases. I don't know where it's at right now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

You mentioned that in terms of recognition, the Klondike is way up there, but I'm just not so sure the market understands that in fact it's a Canadian destination. Anyway, that was just of interest.

In regard to CanNor, I think Ms. Ferguson mentioned that CanNor is in fact a part of INAC. My understanding is that it is a separate, stand-alone agency. The reporting responsibility does go to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, but aside from that it's not actually a division of it. It might just be semantics, but that's just for your purposes.

In terms of this understanding of CanNor's role as it relates to tourism, I know it is a new agency, but have you had any engagement with CanNor to this point here in the territory in terms of preliminary discussions with them about their role?

[Sandy Hachey]

We've had some initial discussions. There hasn't been any communication within the last couple of months. We were invited to industry sessions, I believe in January, and then we've had other discussions with Karen Dove here locally. She spoke at our industry conference in May in Dawson City.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

And Karen Dove is...?

[Sandy Hachey]

I believe she's the director there. I'm not sure, because things were changing throughout that time, so I'm not sure of her exact title.

There haven't been any discussions over the past number of months. Again, that's not pointing any fingers, and we need to take responsibility for that as well. I'm happy to hear the report of the 20% of this $30 million being dedicated to tourism over the five years.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Finally, coming from the tourism sector myself, and as my colleague Mr. Rickford is well aware in northern Ontario, when I think back to the last couple of decades of discussions in the tourism sector in my home province, in the north there were often interesting tensions between tourism and the resource sector. I wonder if you would comment on the same kind of phenomenon as it plays out in Yukon.

[Sandy Hachey]

Sure, I'd be happy to talk about that.

Last year at about this time, actually, we entered into discussions with the Klondike Placer Miners' Association as well as the Yukon Chamber of Mines and developed a memorandum of understanding with those two organizations. The memorandum of understanding is between the two mining organizations and the Tourism Industry Association of the Yukon.

We've been in discussions over the last year with them in terms of developing best practices and in terms of how the two industries can work together. At our most recent meeting about two weeks ago, we started to develop some tools that will allow us to work together. It's an ongoing process. We're dedicated to the MOU and we believe the mining side is as well. There was probably a little bit of a blemish in the past summer because of the Peel Watershed Planning Commission and the recommendation for the land use planning around that. As I mentioned previously, there were varying opinions. Each side had its lobby efforts, but that is not negating any of the work that has happened with respect to the MOU; both sides are still completely dedicated to it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Then you're progressing there. You wouldn't describe it as an impediment to advancing either of your sectors.

[Sandy Hachey]

No. We definitely recognize that one area as an issue, but we agree to park it at the door when we're having the meetings and we proceed with the other issues at hand.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Well done. Good.

That's all I have.

Go ahead, Mr. Bagnell.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I want to re-ask my question to the tourism industry on your priority. I know there is land use planning and I know also that the Yukon government has an instrumental part to play in that, but there are some things in which the federal government could have a major role.

For example, you mentioned controlling credit cards, cost of employees, more money to the CTC, putting back the GST rebate, the museum stuff, the rental car problem we talked about, the air access that you brought up, the historic places initiative, and so on.

What would be one or two of your top priorities if the committee could only get a couple of things through or could only recommend a couple of things?

[Sandy Hachey]

If I can make that, that would be great.

Increase funding to the Canadian Tourism Commission. Obviously they're the body that markets Canada as a whole for tourism--Canada as a destination--so that would be great.

There's one thing, actually, Larry, that wasn't on your list, and we were remiss in bringing it up, but I'd like to ask for your indulgence now, if I may. The marquee festival and events program is one that would greatly benefit the north. The way the program is currently set up, it is not conducive to any event that happens in the north. I think for the bottom tier funding—and you probably experience this in Atlantic Canada as well--you need to attract 50,000-plus visitors in order to access the funding, and there are not even 50,000 people living here. There's no way we could accommodate 50,000 people.

If that funding could be re-examined, that would be great, because there are events here that are world class and would benefit greatly from accessing that funding. Events in Dawson City, the International Short Film Festival, Rendezvous, and Yukon Quest are all world-renowned events, and it would be great if we could access that funding.