Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 17th, 2009

[Sandy Hachey, Executive Director, Tourism Industry Association of the Yukon]

I'll take the question for SINED and then I'll pass the question on Parks Canada to Mary Ann. SINED funding is there. It has been available to us and there have been people in the tourism industry who have accessed that funding. The feedback that we have from our constituents, because TIA Yukon is a membership-based organization, is that the funding is difficult to get. When it does happen, it takes forever to get it, and the reporting requirements around it are quite strenuous. So that deters a lot of people from actually going after that fund.

That's the feedback we've had from our constituents. So there's that. I think the other thing with CanNor is that we know there's the $90 million for SINED but we don't know if there's any structure to that money in terms of what industries will be allowed to access it or if there's a percentage of moneys that are being allocated to specific industries based on what they bring into the territory, etc.

So the feeling in the tourism world, if you will, is that there's a lot of knowledge within the federal government with respect to the mining industry, and forestry and agriculture, but not necessarily a lot of knowledge with respect to the tourism industry. That being said, there need to be better linkages made there between our industry association and the federal government department, and I think this has been happening over the last couple of years. But again, there's still no real understanding, or even of whether there's the opportunity to have that understanding, of what the split would be between the industries or if there even is one, or how does the money get divvied up, out of that pot.

[Marc Johnson]

I would like to speak to Parks Canada. I live in Dawson, and I don't think Dawson would be there if it wasn't for Parks Canada. In the 1960s and 1970s they moved in and basically cleaned the place up. It was pretty much abandoned at that point. Historically, until 1955, Dawson was the capital. But as soon as the capital moved out, pretty much everybody else did too. Gold mining took a dip at that point, and the place was rebuilt from a heritage point of view by Parks Canada in that decade.

Now Parks Canada is going through some funding shortfalls of their own. A lot of the buildings--and I'm thinking specifically of Bear Creek, which was quite an attraction as an industrial heritage site--are now closed altogether. The Dredge is a big attraction but is working with restricted hours. A number of heritage buildings in town that are operated by Parks Canada are working under restricted hours simply because of funding shortfalls.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

You'll have to wrap it up, Mr. Johnston.

[Marc Johnson]

On the one hand we owe a lot to Parks Canada. On the other hand, we're all sort of mad at them these days because we don't understand their shortcomings. It's a “six of one, half dozen of the other” situation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Very well.

Thank you, Mr. Russell and our witnesses.

It is now Mr. Lévesque's turn.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, Marc talked about the price of gas. When we got here yesterday, I was pleasantly surprised to see that the price was 87¢ a litre. When we left Montreal, the price was $1.14 a litre. I am not sure if it is due to the fact that the gas tax is lower here; I do not know enough about it to say.

I was part of an association called the FQCC. It organizes trips from here up to Alaska. A friend of mine passed through here a couple of years ago. He spent two weeks here. He let the rest of the caravan go ahead so he could stay here. He found things in his field, in his area of interest, and he wanted to see them. I worked in regional development before I became an MP. Without trying to give a lesson, I can tell you that we looked into what we could do to attract tourists to our region. Being closer to the centre of the country, we may have more opportunities to do that. It is probably harder in the far reaches of the country. The main objective is to keep tourists in our area as long as possible so they can spread the word to those they meet afterwards.

I do not know what kind of infrastructure you have—apart from Dawson, which Marc just talked about—to keep tourists here. Whitehorse and Yellowknife are the two big hubs of the most remote territories. People want to know what there is to see. This is the first time that I have seen visitor's guides for the two cities and looked at them so closely. I am sure that you can explain to me whether better adapted, more structured roads would be an advantage, or even an immediate necessity.

In addition, Stephen, do you provide the Air North cap on flights? We have flown Air North before, and they forgot to give us a cap. I am a guy who likes his caps.

[Stephen Mills]

Yes, so long as you pay our fuel surcharge on our aircraft.

Actually, yes, all members can have a cap. I understand you're flying out tomorrow to Yellowknife. I'll make sure there's a cap for everyone so that no one is treated unfairly.

I would like to point out one thing on the fuel, if I can, to one of your comments. There's a different taxation regime here. The fact is that for aviation fuel, it costs us close to 10 cents per litre to transport from the south.

When you look at fuel costs for our airline here, where we purchase more than half of our fuel in Whitehorse, we have a bit of a disadvantage to the other air carriers. We have seen some very large increases in fuel charges. It is nice to see the lower fuel, when you can see it around town, for purchasing. For our airline industry, we have to bring it in.

We also recognize that this is more of a taxation issue with the territorial government than it is somehow access to cheap fuel.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Does anyone else want to comment?

[Marc Johnson]

I would like to point out that as far as fuel prices go, in Dawson today I think it was $1.28. I just left there this morning.

The other thing to keep in mind is that prices are low now, but come next May, they'll be in the $1.20 range. I'm guessing; it's really up to the fuel companies as to what they charge. But as soon as the tourists start coming, up the prices go.

[Sandy Hachey]

I would suggest that the fuel prices you've been seeing around town over the last couple of days have been quite an anomaly. They don't normally look like that.

I have to say that when I saw 91.9 cents per litre, I rushed to the gas station and got my fuel. An hour later, when I saw 86.9 cents per litre, I went, “Oh.”

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Sandy Hachey]

So that doesn't happen here normally. And I would echo what Marc says, that in summer the fuel prices are quite a bit higher, especially coming up the highway. There are places on the highway where you could pay $1.30 or more a litre.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

We will pay you for the caps.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Yes, absolutely.

Mr. Bevington now has the floor for five minutes.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thanks.

I want to thank the presenters here.

I certainly recognize with Air North that we have the same very sincere issues with our carriers in the Northwest Territories. We all hope that out of this cherry-picking that's going on right now with the gateway routes that we don't lose our carriers. Some of them provide such a massive service to the rest of the north that, let me tell you, if we lose them....

In the Northwest Territories, there are twenty-some communities with nothing but air access. In Nunavut, there are 33, I believe, that have nothing but air access. If we lose the carriers that are providing the service to those communities, you'll see that the burden will be shifted over to government and to all kinds of other areas. We're all united on this, I think across the territories, that we need attention paid to this.

On the tourism side, I'd like to go on with the national parks issue. That is one area where we can influence a national policy. With the national parks, intrinsic within their policy is the recognition of the surrounding area, yet we don't see that with their approach to tourism. We've seen massive increases in the presence of national parks in all three northern territories over the past 20 years, yet they're not selling a product--the northern product. They may sell somewhat the individual parks, but they don't come out and support the kind of effort we need for recognition of the north.

Can I get your comments on that, one way or the other?

[Sandy Hachey]

We would like to see that too. It would be great to see more collaboration between the Canadian Tourism Commission and Parks Canada to promote the parks, specifically in the north. I was just at the TIAC conference in St. John, and Parks Canada did speak about the partnership that they're starting to develop with the Canadian Tourism Commission. Hopefully that will evolve into something further down the road, but definitely something with a little bit more emphasis on northern wilderness spaces would be valuable.

[Marc Johnson]

When I think of Parks Canada, I think of Dawson, which is not necessarily wilderness; it's a built heritage, the entire town. We have actually talked about exactly what you're suggesting, between the Klondike Visitors Association and Parks Canada, and their branding, if you will, or their promotion of Dawson and parks in general, particularly in the north, from our point of view. It is something that they are aware of, but we'd all like them to take action “last week”.

I think it's coming. I don't know when. That would be up to Parks Canada to answer, but we have brought that up and have discussed it.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Out of this session we're in will be a report. This is what we're trying to accomplish here, to find ways to work on northern development from a federal perspective. These are things that are of great interest.

Go ahead.

[Stephen Mills]

Thank you for your question. I'm going to wear a slightly different hat here.

In our community of Old Crow, of course, there's the Ivvavik National Park. But we also have Vuntut National Park, which was established as part of our land claim agreement. It's a wilderness park. It's never going to, at least in the next decade or two, see high visitation rates, but one of the key aspects of that park is that it is one part of the story of the Vuntut Gwitchin people in Old Crow. So Parks Canada has worked with the first nation along with the Yukon government to establish a visitor reception centre, which promotes not only the park, but also other territorial parks and cultural areas of importance to our people. Air North has been working a little bit, but not a lot, with Parks Canada on marketing strategies and so on, for utilization of our airline. I think we're all facing the same thing, which is that without significant money, these parks are basically large closed areas. They should really be promoting the people who live in that area, the whole importance of that area.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Bevington.

Now we'll go to Mr. Duncan, then we'll start the second round with Mr. Bagnell.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you for being here, and thank you Stephen Mills, for being here for the second time today. We know now that you wear more than one hat, but we know that you also deal in caps. I just want to make sure we're talking about Air North caps, not resource revenue caps. Are we correct?

We had quite a bit of discussion regarding federal contributions for tourism and heritage or culture. We had the deputy minister of tourism from the Yukon government here this morning, and I've just confirmed that the SINED $30 million for the Yukon over the next five years is designated 20% for tourism and 10% for culture. Were you aware of this, or is this news to you?

[Sandy Hachey]

This is news.

[Marc Johnson]

It's news for all of us. Was that Mr. Alexander?

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Yes, I believe so.