Evidence of meeting #38 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nwt.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Floyd Roland  Premier, Government of the Northwest Territories
Michael Miltenberger  Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance and Environment and Natural Resources, Government of the Northwest Territories
Peter Vician  Deputy Minister, Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Government of the Northwest Territories
Terry Kruger  Communications and Policy Coordinator, Northwest Territories Association of Communities
Doug Ritchie  Member, Alternatives North
John F. Kearney  Chairman, Canadian Zinc Corporation
Donald Balsillie  Chairman, Dezé Energy Corporation
Hugh Wilson  Vice-President, Environment and Community Affairs, Tyhee Development Corporation
Gilbert Cazon  Acting General Manager, Nogha Enterprises Limited
Daniel Grabke  Managing Director, Dezé Energy Corporation
Alan Taylor  Chief Operating Officer, Canadian Zinc Corporation
Todd Noseworthy  Chairperson, Northwest Territories Community Futures Association
Edward Kennedy  President and Chief Executive Officer, North West Company
Andrew Robinson  Executive Director, Arctic Energy Alliance
Boris Atamanenko  Manager, Community Programs, Northwest Territories Arts Council
Mary Lou Cherwaty  President, Northern Territories Federation of Labour
Charles Pokiak  Director, Tuktoyaktuk Hunters and Trappers Committee
Ted Blondin  Director, Mine Training Society
Hilary Jones  General Manager, Mine Training Society
Fred Koe  Director, Northwest Territories Métis-Dene Development Fund Ltd.
Ted Tsetta  Chief of the Yellowknives Dene First Nation (Ndilo), Akaitcho Treaty 8 Dene
Steve Nitah  Chief of the Lutsel K'e Dene First Nation, Akaitcho Treaty 8 Dene
Darrell Beaulieu  Chief Executive Officer, Northern Aboriginal Business Association

2:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

Thank you, Mr. Bevington.

You'll see in that last question that we flipped those two questions around. I should have gone to government members and then back to Mr. Bevington. I said earlier that we have this set order. The committee members are really on the ball when it comes to this, and they don't miss a beat. There were only two spots left. I apologize to the government members.

Here we go. I've been shackled again.

We'll go to Mr. Duncan and Mr. Clarke. I think they're splitting their time. Do I understand that?

2:30 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Yes, I'll share my time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I like what you're saying: if you build it, they will come.

I have a couple of points here. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't have knowledge of the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act. You're talking about some of the amendments that could be done by government.

Before I go into that, I'm wondering if you're aware of the Green Infrastructure Fund, which I know some other provinces have taken advantage of to help build projects, or the municipal infrastructure lending program that's out there for projects. It's something for you to look into later.

When we go into the act, you ask about amendments. I'm wondering, with the first nations portion, how first nations would interpret it. If the act is reopened and amendments are made, will first nations take that advantage or look at it as a process of further duty to consult?

2:30 p.m.

Chairman, Dezé Energy Corporation

Donald Balsillie

Definitely. Any time you reopen such significant agreements that are protected under the Constitution, the parties have to be well informed. Some of these parties have been at the table for 20 years negotiating these agreements. To reopen them is a big decision. In the Akaitcho territory we have not finished our negotiations. But from the onset of the act, we knew there were problems, and we did not support the act. Until today we haven't appointed anyone from the Akaitcho region to sit on that board. We believe there's a necessity to rejig what's currently in place.

2:30 p.m.

Chairman, Canadian Zinc Corporation

John F. Kearney

If I could very briefly pick up there, if the proposal, for example, was to change the number of boards or to change the jurisdiction of the board, that's a fundamental change that I think would cause a problem and that would require reopening of the underlying agreement, because they were long fought and long negotiated. But there are legislative changes that can be made that don't necessitate the reopening of the agreement.

One other point I would want to make to the committee with regard to Nunavut is that there's new legislation coming before the House for Nunavut. At the moment the draft of that legislation.... Actually, I'm not sure we've seen the draft. What we believe is that the draft of the legislation incorporates all the problems that currently exist in the Northwest Territories. The mining industry has made representation to please change it before enacting it, and frankly, we're getting nowhere. This is a mistake—I would repeat, it's a mistake—that is going to be made if Parliament adopts the proposed legislation with all the problems that are in the Mackenzie Valley act and that the McCrank report has recommended be fixed.

2:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

Thank you.

You've got a bit of time left here--two minutes--Mr. Duncan.

2:30 p.m.

Conservative

John Duncan Conservative Vancouver Island North, BC

In that last statement you made there was maybe something very important and quite a nugget for us, so I'll personally endeavour to follow up on that with the minister and others.

Mr. Wilson, you had your hand up. You wanted to interject, and I think you thought it was important.

2:30 p.m.

Vice-President, Environment and Community Affairs, Tyhee Development Corporation

Hugh Wilson

Sorry, it's not that I want to interject, but I just want to add to what John was talking about in the discussion. I don't think it's necessary that the legislation itself be opened up. I think the regulations or rules of procedure, what the board works under, can be modified or changed.

One area is putting in things like thresholds for exploration activities. What the industry has experienced is that two-hole drill programs—in other words, you go out and drill two holes and then you go back and you do your work. Sometimes these two-hole drill programs, which generally have very little impact, have gone to environmental assessment, have been referred to environmental assessment, and basically this is where the wheel keeps turning and this two-hole drill program goes into limbo for potentially years

2:35 p.m.

Conservative

John Duncan Conservative Vancouver Island North, BC

Am I out of time?

2:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

You've got about 30 seconds left, Mr. Duncan. Far be it from me to deprive you of any time.

2:35 p.m.

Conservative

John Duncan Conservative Vancouver Island North, BC

Okay.

I just wondered if I could generate a comment from you. There has been a lot of talk from you, Mr. Kearney, about political messaging and so on. We had a vote in the House of Commons on Bill C-300, corporate social responsibility, and it narrowly passed, so it has gone to committee. I'm just wondering if you would care to comment on what kind of political messaging that is for Canada when we are in a situation where most of the venture capital is raised in this country through the TSX.

2:35 p.m.

Chairman, Canadian Zinc Corporation

John F. Kearney

You're referring to the private member's bill that has been proposed.

2:35 p.m.

Conservative

John Duncan Conservative Vancouver Island North, BC

It has been proposed and voted on once, and it narrowly passed the first vote.

2:35 p.m.

Chairman, Canadian Zinc Corporation

John F. Kearney

I believe the mining industry does not support the enactment of that legislation. There are significant concerns with regard to the attempts to enforce foreign standards in Canada. The industry has made a recommendation for an alternative approach, an alternative structure, and the Canadian Institute of Mining and Metallurgy has adopted a plan and a policy on implementation of corporate social responsibility on a voluntary basis by the mining industry—self-regulated, self-imposed, with testing and with accountability. The industry would, I believe, prefer to see that type of approach rather than the one that is proposed in the bill that's before Parliament.

2:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

Thank you, Mr. Duncan and Mr. Clarke.

And thank you to all our presenters and witnesses here over the last hour and a half or a little more. This has been insightful. We appreciate your giving time to the committee's deliberations this afternoon. You can be sure we will take all your comments and reflect on them in the weeks and months ahead, as we prepare to pull together recommendations for the government early in the new year.

As you probably know, this is the second of three stops for us in the north. We'll be in Iqaluit next week, and then we resume consideration of this report through the rest of this month and early December and then right through to March. A good majority of these hearings will be conducted in Ottawa. We're delighted to have you here this afternoon.

With that, we'll suspend, members, and we'll get under way in no more than 10 minutes. We'll resume with the next panel.

2:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

Thank you very much, members. We'll resume our consideration of the measures, the identifying barriers, and considering solutions and opportunities to resolve those in looking at advances to the economic development of Canada's north.

We're joined this afternoon, first of all, by Mr. Todd Noseworthy. Todd is the chairperson of the Northwest Territories Community Futures Association. First, Mr. Noseworthy, we appreciate your changing your schedule somewhat today to be part of the second panel in this section. As I think the clerk pointed out, it will probably work out better for time and questions for you as well as for us.

We also welcome Mr. Edward Kennedy, who is the president and CEO of the North West Company. Mr. Kennedy, delighted to have you here, sir.

And we also have Mr. Andrew Robinson, who is the executive director for the Arctic Energy Alliance.

As we generally do, gentlemen, we'll have presentations of five minutes each at the front end of the meeting, and we'll just go in order.

Let's begin with Mr. Noseworthy for five minutes.

Mr. Noseworthy, the floor is yours.

November 19th, 2009 / 2:50 p.m.

Todd Noseworthy Chairperson, Northwest Territories Community Futures Association

Thank you very much, and thank you for the invitation and the opportunity to present. You often hear it said in the NWT that the way to start a small business in the north is to start a big one and wait a couple of years. The statement perhaps unintentionally reflects the reality of the many barriers to business development in the NWT.

For discussion purposes, I've separated the barriers into two broad categories. The first one I'll discuss is the barriers that are experienced directly by businesses and communities when they attempt to develop, and the second is the barriers that are often faced by development organizations that try to provide assistance to those organizations.

First we'll start with the businesses in the communities. The obvious one, the elephant in the room, is that the cost of doing business is higher in the NWT than in southern Canada, not only direct costs such as materials and labour, but you also have to consider freight, transportation, heat, and power, which is a big one. We always hear about trying to make power rates similar across the NWT, but it's never happened, so it's a big disadvantage. Of course, increased costs can mean that businesses lose the ability to compete.The problems are not only evident when we compare the NWT as a whole to southern Canada, but even when you're comparing smaller communities or disadvantaged communities to larger, more populous communities.

One possible solution--and I assume this is the way you want me to present, barriers and solutions--is we just thought that you could possibly provide some kind of incentive, tax break, or subsidy to small business in the north, similar to those that are provided to individuals in northern areas, such as the northern living allowance that all government employees receive, or the northern residents tax reduction that's offered to all northern residents. That's in the short run. In the long run, of course, we can always ask you to continue to work with local and territorial governments in attempting to reduce the costs of operating businesses and living in the NWT.

Second is education. Many areas in the NWT still suffer from low levels of education. Many small and medium-sized enterprises lack the skills and capacity to take advantage of even small-scale opportunities, and often require intensive one-on-one assistance. One possible solution is to aid the business development organizations that are out there by providing funding, or more staffing somehow, so that we can improve the staff-to-client ratios, build better relationships, and try to bring that education to them.

They also need more training specific to the start-up and operation of business. There could possibly be a workshop series introduced, and if those types of things already exist, perhaps some medium to make businesses more aware of the training opportunities that do exist. Just in the last couple of years, the NWT has been linked up with Alberta, and we have access to video conference facilities now that provide some of that kind of material, so it doesn't always have to be in person.

Of course, we can always ask that entrepreneurs be made aware of the ramifications of not starting their business on the right foot. They always end up in trouble, especially with CRA, five years down the road.

Another one that was noted was the educational funding provided to employees of organizations and to tradespeople for upgrading and skills development, and that kind of stuff. Small businesses that have owner-operators who actually do the work, not just hire employees to do the work, are often not eligible for that type of funding and can't take advantage of the funds that are set aside to go to upgrade their services or perhaps get some specific training in a new area so they can broaden their service. Because of that, it's tough for them to compete, particularly against southern companies that might try to come in and tap markets once or twice a year and leave town with piles of cash in their pockets. The suggestion we had there was that perhaps changes could be made to existing training funds and programs to allow business owners to access them. We're probably all aware of the changes that were recently made to the EI program to allow self-employed people to now pay into EI and take maternity benefits, so why not broaden it a little more and allow small business owners to access training?

The final one under education is that many people in the NWT are not aware of the challenges and benefits of being self-employed, nor do they know anything about what it takes to be in business or how to get there. Perhaps educational efforts could be focused on senior high school and college students, and the schools could be asked if they wish to take advantage of a structured program to teach their students more about business. Perhaps business becomes not mandatory but a mandatory elective that schools have to at least offer to students and give them the chance to learn a bit more about business.

That covers off most of education.

Next is labour. If you'd been in Yellowknife maybe two to three years ago, this one would be plainly evident. New and existing businesses require a larger and better qualified workforce. Significant shortages of capable employees not only prevent new businesses from starting and existing businesses from expanding, but also make it very expensive and difficult for existing companies to maintain their current operations. I know restaurants here in Yellowknife, for sure, and Alberta too, were experiencing staffing shortages and had to cut back hours, increase wages, and hire younger and younger people to work in their businesses, and it made it tough to maintain staff.

3 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

I'll interrupt you there for a second, Mr. Noseworthy. I've had a brief glance at your submission and there's quite a bit here, so maybe you want to take a minute or so and hit the high points of that, to sum up. Of course, since you submitted the document, we will get it properly translated. It is quite thorough, as you already alluded to. So if you'd take a minute and hit some of the key high points, we'll be able to move on to the next speaker.

Go ahead.

3 p.m.

Chairperson, Northwest Territories Community Futures Association

Todd Noseworthy

I'll just hit the highlights.

Lack of access to other resources--so they don't have access to lawyers and accountants on a daily or even a weekly basis, or other sources of private financing, which might be banks, venture capital, that kind of thing. We could inform businesses of the suitable business incubators. I understand there are virtual business incubators that operate online now, and if they don't work, perhaps develop suitable facilities.

One thing that was mentioned was to try to get representatives of INAC and ABC and other federal funding programs out into the communities more, so they better understand where those communities are coming from when they approach for funding.

There is a lack of targeted programming and funding. This has kind of been my axe to grind ever since I came to the NWT. Everywhere in Canada--different programs in different parts--the federal government provides funding for specific groups, whether it be youth, women, people with disabilities, and so on. Since I've been in the NWT, there has been no funding like that. I suggest that this be looked at and some needs identified and met.

Isolation is always a problem, largely due to the transportation and cost of transportation. Better roads and better access to roads can help there.

The second part was on the support services I mentioned. Community Futures organizations are out there. We're not funded to the point where we can provide all the services we're expected to provide. Staffing and recruitment is a problem for those organizations, as well as capital, although INAC has recently helped us address the capital issues somewhat.

We suggest all of those problems, along with training, could probably be helped with a possible federal-territorial partnership for Community Futures, rather than total territorial funding.

3 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

Thank you very much, Mr. Noseworthy. I appreciate that. That was quite a good job, I must say. Well done, and as I say, it was a very thorough submission.

Now we'll go to Mr. Kennedy, who is from a very famous company in Canada's history, really, the North West Company. We invite you to bring your presentation.

Before you start, you knew Ian and Judy Sutherland, formerly, perhaps; they were on the board.

3 p.m.

Edward Kennedy President and Chief Executive Officer, North West Company

Yes, they are still on the board.

3 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

Good. I wanted to be sure you made the connection there. They're good friends of mine.

Carry on.

3 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, North West Company

Edward Kennedy

Good afternoon, and thanks for inviting me to be part of your presentation. Thanks for coming to the north as well.

As the head of Canada's largest and oldest northern enterprise, and as someone born and raised in the north, I am keenly interested in development issues affecting the region.

By way of background, as you may know already, we're a Canadian-owned retailer based in Winnipeg. We're publicly traded. Our units are held on the TSX. We're owned by thousands of individual investors, over 600 employees, and several investment funds, including a few aboriginal capital funds.

Today we operate 227 stores across northern Canada, Alaska, western Canada, the Caribbean, and the South Pacific. In Canada, our stores trade under the names Northern, Northmart, and Giant Tiger. Internationally, they trade under the names AC Value Center and Cost U Less. Our annual sales are approximately $1.5 billion, and we have 7,000 valued associates.

About 75% of our business is derived from food sales and related everyday products. The remainder is spread across a very wide range of general merchandise, from housewares to hardware, sporting goods, outdoor gear, appliances, and electronics.

We also offer financial services and health care services, from pharmacies to doctor recruitment.

North West is a significant investor in the Canadian north. We are the largest private sector employer of aboriginal people in Canada. Our total capital employed in the north is approaching $300 million, and our employment base in the north is 3,400 people. In addition to this direct local investment and local employment, we spend approximately $75 million a year on local services, including local freight.

While size has its advantages, for us, the success of our enterprise depends on community partnerships. We're a partner with over 40 commercial enterprises in the north, mostly aboriginal entities. We've entered into similar arrangements in Alaska and in the south. The most common agreements are store leases, but we also have non-retail partnerships. The most notable might be our shipping joint venture with three regional Inuit corporations serving the eastern and central Arctic.

Our approach to retailing is community-based in other ways. Our newest stores feature innovative green technology—one in particular in Labrador has been recognized as a leader in cold weather construction technology as well as managing efficient operating costs.

Our sponsorship of healthy living initiatives has raised over $1 million in the past eight years, and we spearheaded northern marathon teams. The idea here is that we have teams of up to 25 runners that come from the north and enter international marathons. They're part of Team Diabetes Canada. Most of these runners and walkers return to their home communities and are ongoing role models of healthy, active lifestyles.

Turning to northern development as a whole and our own direct investments specifically, we consider three elements as being critical when we consider where we're going to spend our capital and how to expand our business. Those are capacity, infrastructure, and business climate.

By capacity, I refer to knowledge and skills of the local workforce. Our industry, like the broader service sector, is people-intensive, with increasing enablement by technology and new work processes. We don't mine for minerals; for us, people are diamonds, and finding the best ones is all about our ability to grow and sustain our business.

Recently, we analyzed the correlation between the stability and capability of our local store teams and our sales in these different communities. We found, maybe not surprisingly, that the more stable and qualified our staff, the larger the store, the more local sales, and the higher the value of the wages and employment that was being generated by that store, the greater the capture of dollars that would otherwise leak into the south.

I use this example as a proxy for the entire service centre in Canada's north, which in general is severely underdeveloped. With more capacity, we envision a myriad of import substitution services that are otherwise more expensive or inconvenient to source from the south. Some possibilities are environmental services; expanded financial services, including insurance lending and income tax preparation; and facilities services, including equipment maintenance and repair. Just as a side note on that, the cost for us to repair equipment in a place like Pond Inlet would range between $5,000 and $10,000. At one of our Giant Tiger stores in Winnipeg, it would be under $500 for the same repair. So there is a gap there that you could fill with local talent if the capacity existed.

Local prescription drug dispensing through technicians is another opportunity. There is legislation in B.C. that enables this. We don't have it in the north right now.

Nurse practitioners and other sub full-position, qualified but still approved, health delivery models are also a possibility.

When we look at infrastructure, as you can imagine, we're talking about transportation, water, power, roads, broadband, schools, and health facilities. The challenges, as you've heard already and you know, relate to cost, reliability, quantity, and quality. We understand as much as anyone that in this environment it's complex, it's remote, and the climate can be harsh. But too often we think that's an excuse to justify mediocre performance—and I'm talking about our own organization. We believe northern infrastructure has to be benchmarked against the world, not only against other remote areas of the world. As well, the region's high costs, whether measured by productivity or cost of living gaps, need to be continually highlighted for attention and not misconstrued as a way of life.

All-weather roads, improved seaports, airports, more frequent and reliable air access, and technology that enables more housing stock per dollar of investment, as well as greener living practices, are all practices that would have a direct impact on the cost and quality of life and on the capacity of the region to compete.

The business climate, lastly, refers to other policies that affect direct local investment. I'm going to highlight a couple of them here and then wrap up.

In general, we find it to be a hit-and-miss proposition in the north. As one example, in Nunavut Territory we have an investment on the ground of $100 million and we employ 900 people, but when it comes to bidding for government contracts, we are considered a southern company with practically the same status as having invested nothing. So you can imagine that's not a policy that encourages a company like ours, or any other non-Inuit-owned service provider, to invest more in the north. In fact, it's a decision that helps, we believe, non-investment in the north because you can compete from the south just as easily as we have in the north.

The second area that's under review now that I'll highlight briefly is the food mail system. We've entered into an alliance with the other two large retailers in the north—Arctic Co-operatives Limited and La Fédération des coopératives du Nouveau-Québec, or FCNQ—and proposed different rules that would help in terms of streamlining.

We've identified up to 20¢ a pound inefficiency by the product running through the post office system at select entry points instead of having us manage the freight efficiently. There is a lot of waste and spoilage, as you can imagine. A 40-pound case of bananas can cost up to $4 a pound. The case alone is $4 and the shrink wrap alone could be another $5, and you have to wrap it, etc. When you turn it over to the post office and leave it there for a few days, it's not the best system.

I just point that out because we'd like to see a good outcome. We're not sure what the best answer is, but we've proposed that we be compensated based on the weight that we ship, and there can be an audit procedure. What we're proposing, really, is simplification and letting the businesses run it as efficiently as possible.

I don't want to end my remarks talking about barriers to development. I would say with confidence that these challenges still open us up for much potential for growth in the northern economy. You'll hear a lot from the natural resource industry, but looking at the service sector specifically, our company itself is a business that started in the north many hundreds of years ago, but more recently in the past 20 years we've grown internationally.

We've taken and leveraged our skill and knowledge of community retailing, cultural adaptiveness, and our remote market logistics to grow around the world. The key, we believe, has been the capacity of the people, putting people first, and then sizing up the gaps in a global context, whether measured by education, infrastructure, or the fairness of the business climate.

That's the end of my presentation. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

3:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

Thank you very much, Mr. Kennedy.

Now we'll go to Mr. Robinson, who is with the Arctic Energy Alliance. In the same vein, there were some handouts here, but I don't think they were in both official languages. We'll endeavour to get those translated and get them out to members afterwards.

Mr. Robinson, go ahead. A presentation between five and eight minutes in length would be great.

3:10 p.m.

Andrew Robinson Executive Director, Arctic Energy Alliance

As was mentioned, my name is Andrew Robinson, and I am the executive director of the Arctic Energy Alliance. I grew up in Makkovik, in Labrador, which means I've been living in the north for most of my life.

I've been with the Arctic Energy Alliance for the last five years, the last two years as the director. We are a small, non-profit organization that gets most of its money from the territorial government. We have a vision that the NWT will become a leader in sustainable energy use. Our budget right now is around $2.5 million a year, so that gives you an idea of who we are.

I'm going to talk about working with people who live here. A lot of economic development focuses on big projects, which end up bringing in mostly people who live somewhere else. But our mandate is to focus on people who live here, so that's what I'm going to concentrate on.

Our mandate is also to look at energy costs and the environmental impacts of the energy use. So we look at how people heat their homes, how they heat their businesses, how they get the power to keep their lights on, and how they can move from A to B without affecting the environment too much or spending more than they can afford.

There is a high cost of doing business in the north. It is related to the high cost of heating oil, diesel, and gasoline. Down south you have a natural gas grid, which has relatively cheap heating energy in it, or you have cheap electricity. We don't have that. We're all on imported oil, and that makes things expensive.

It's the same with electricity. The costs here are much higher than they are anywhere else. This is related to the high cost of fuel, plus what you call economies of scale. Small communities have to pay for large numbers of generators to cover a small population. You end up having to pay a lot per person.

One of the biggest issues we look at now is climate change. When we started as an organization, our focus was on the cost of energy. Now it's on climate change, because we see it as becoming a bigger issue than the high costs. With the exception of Yellowknife, most of the Northwest Territories is built on ice. I don't know if you've ever been to Tuktoyaktuk, but there's a community freezer under the ground where they store frozen things. They can do that because it's ice. When you're down there, you can shine a light and see that the ground, the earth, is this much ice and this much dirt and then another layer of this much ice and that much dirt. It makes a nice pattern when you shine a flashlight into it, but it's ice. Tuktoyaktuk is built on ice, and so is most of the Northwest Territories.

When you look into the future, which is part of what we're mandated to do, you can see that with climate change the north is going to melt, and so is the ice that most of the north is built on. This is going to have a huge impact on the cost of business, the cost of living. You can imagine what happens when the ice melts under a tank farm. It's going to tip over or break and you're going to have a massive problem trying to clean it up. It's already happening. We've seen it with sewage lagoons, roads, airports, houses. Things are starting to tip over, and it's destroying the infrastructure. Whatever you do, when you invest in business, you're going to have to deal with that in the north.

These are the issues that I see, and we've tried to come up with some solutions. It's interesting, the Northwest Territories is leading the way in a lot of things. It would be a good idea to invest more in energy-efficient infrastructure. Too often we see things that have been built with a short timeframe in mind. You build something fast now because it's needed now. As an organization, we come in and deal with poorly built buildings and infrastructure that is not energy efficient and costs a lot to operate. When building infrastructure, it's important to take the time and spend the money to build for the long term. It's important to remember that the people who live in the place are going to have to pay for operating the equipment or infrastructure.

It's the same for the climate change that I mentioned. We're going to have to look at investing and building for an unknown future. Again, whatever infrastructure, whatever project is going to be built.... Climate change is not going to make this place a warm, sunny, happy place that's nicer to live in than it was before. It's going to be a wet, muddy mess, because everything is going to melt and you'll end up with mud. You're going to be trying to build in mud. That is going to be a challenge. We have to start to think about that if we're going to be doing projects in the north. How are we going to build on unstable ground as it is disappearing?

Likewise, as the others mentioned, in terms of the kind of stuff we're talking about, building basic infrastructure on the ground, the local people can do that. We don't need to import a lot of high-skilled people. We do need to invest in local skills, trades--and university education--but for local people. I think we do see that happening.

One example is that the housing corporation here has now adopted the EGH 80 standard for all new housing. They've also committed to bringing existing housing up to that standard, and that's excellent. Right now they're investing in new housing that's built well, and they're doing it with local people so much that most construction companies that we've seen are extremely busy.

There's a similar thing that's quite interesting. I don't know if you know this, but in North America, Yellowknife is the capital in using wood pellets for heating commercial buildings. There's nowhere else in North America that has this number of units. Again, that's credited to the Government of the Northwest Territories. They've started to switch to using wood pellets that come from northern Alberta to heat.

They're cheaper than heating oil. They're much less environmentally damaging if you have a spill. They're considered carbon neutral. They're basically made out of waste sawdust, so they don't have a climate impact. Here you have the north showing the rest of the country that it is possible to build an infrastructure that doesn't use fossil fuels, and it is cheaper to run.

3:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

Is that it?