Evidence of meeting #39 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was training.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
It would be helpful if you're able to provide that to the committee.
Conservative
Chief Financial Officer, Nunavut Housing Corporation
Most of them are done as equity land lease. Equity land lease is roughly about $20,000. That's basically what you pay for a 30-year or 40-year land lease for the property.
So the land really isn't the key thing. After that, you have to pay for lot preps. You have to put gravel on the land. You have to pay for pilings. You have to pay for a foundation system. Based on the type of land, the gravel costs can range up to $60,000 just to make the land flat.
So when you're talking about land costs, those are really the two main land components. The rest is mostly materials, as well as the construction labour. In some of the smaller communities, you're often flying in crews to do the construction, which also takes additional funds.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
So when they build a hundred thousand dollar house and their 40-year lease is up, what happens?
Chief Financial Officer, Nunavut Housing Corporation
There's no such thing as a hundred thousand dollar house. We wish.
Liberal
Chief Financial Officer, Nunavut Housing Corporation
I believe it gets renewed for a nominal amount, like a dollar a year or something. Usually, once you've paid that $20,000, as long as you stay on the land, I believe it just keeps rolling at a nominal cost.
Liberal
Chief Financial Officer, Nunavut Housing Corporation
I think you can transfer it. There are some rules around that in regard to land claim, but...
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
We've allowed a couple of questions here just to wrap up.
Mr. Dreeshen, did you have one? You were asking me for a very short question. I want to be fair here.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer, AB
Yes, I did have a question, but I wanted to finish as close to the time as possible.
Actually, the question I had, Brian, had to do with the fishing quotas and the quota system. I don't know whether you have enough time to explain that to me.
I was just curious as to what types of conflicts you might see if, instead of splitting the quotas up the way they are now, Nunavut would be getting 80% or 90%. What about the other areas that you would of course have to take that quota away from? What kinds of conflicts do you think would exist?
Senior Business Advisor, Nunavut Development Corporation
Fisheries and Oceans Canada has a number of principles in allocating quotas. One is adjacency; another is historical or economic dependence, that is, usage.
What I'm talking about is the 0B quota zone. It's just offshore here. In 0A, I don't think there's a threat of any increases going to other jurisdictions, because it's so far north. I would think that it would be hard for any other jurisdiction to justify having access to that quota, because they're not even close to being adjacent.
Under the 0B quota, we now have 41%. This came about with the increase of 1,500 metric tonnes announced last week by the minister. There is some quota still held by southern fishing interests. Two year ago, the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board took Fisheries and Oceans Canada to court over not having advance information that would allow Nunavut interests to buy that quota.
If any additional quota comes up, there is enough precedent now that the minister, I would say, would have no choice but to allocate it to Nunavut. Land claims are the number one precedent, along with the other allocation principles in place.
We would like to have access, as a Nunavut fishery, to any of the other quota held by industry. Some of the larger southern fishing companies hold the balance of the existing quota. We would like the opportunity to have access to that. In the best-case scenario, we'd like the minister to just allocate it to Nunavut. I don't know if that would be possible. I don't think the southern fishing industry would just roll it over and give it to us. But we would like the right to table an offer with someone, because the waters are close to us. There's no one closer to it. This is the number one justification for every jurisdiction in the south—why they have their quota and how they maintain it.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
I have to be fair, so we're going to take a short question from Ms. Hughes.
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
I want to ask a question about housing. You said that you needed a 12-month supply of material to be able to build those houses. What is holding you up with that? Is it funding? Is it transportation, that they just can't handle the big load? I'm curious about why you can't get your 12-month supply.
Chief Financial Officer, Nunavut Housing Corporation
We only get sealifts once a year, so when we get one there's a huge volume. They usually arrive during the bad weather, when the snow is starting. You have to have storage facilities, because you don't want to just throw your crates out on the land and hope no one opens them. We need secure storage to make sure that stuff stays where it is till we're ready to use it.
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
If you had secure storage, you'd be able to order for 12 months?
Chief Financial Officer, Nunavut Housing Corporation
That's one of our issues. We order for 12 months right now, but one of our issues is secure storage.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Just when we think we're running out of steam, we get an extra burst.
Thanks, everybody.
For the benefit of members, we are staying here in the hotel. We have five witnesses joining us at 6 p.m.
Again, my thanks to our witnesses for staying a little later this afternoon and helping to inform our study.
The meeting is suspended.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Okay, I think we'll resume, this being our fifth panel today in continuing our consideration of the barriers and solutions regarding the economic development of Canada's north.
For the benefit of the witnesses who are here this evening, who I'll introduce formally here in a moment, this is in fact the third of three stops that we are making in each of the territorial capitals as part of our comprehensive study on this topic. The study will be continuing as we return to Ottawa this week and it will be continuing straight through after the Christmas break until mid-to-late March, with a number of witnesses. This is one of the first times, to our understanding, that this standing committee has in fact undertaken such a comprehensive study in this area.
We're delighted to have with us this evening five witnesses. The way we do this, by the way, is we'll be hearing presentations from each of you, and we're planned for about five minutes each. Once you have all had an opportunity to present to the committee, we will then go to questions from members, and I'll give you a bit more information on the format for that once we're ready to do that part.
I'd like to welcome, first of all, Colleen Dupuis. Colleen is the CEO for Nunavut Tourism. We're also waiting for Rowena House, who is the Executive Director of Nunavut Arts and Craft Association. Hopefully she'll be along momentarily. We do have with us Stéphane Daigle, the Regional Manager for the Nunavut office of Arctic Co-operatives Limited, and Stéphane is going to be joined by Nicole Sikma, who is a Director with Arctic Co-operatives. We also welcome Daniel Vandermeulen. Daniel is the President of Nunavut Arctic College. I understand we'll be there tomorrow morning as well for a site visit. And last but certainly not least we have Mr. Chris West, the President of the Baffin Regional Chamber of Commerce.
So we have a very full panel for the final part of our meetings here in Iqaluit. Let's begin, then, with presentations.
I'll say to the witnesses first that we are doing simultaneous interpretation, so in the course of your presentation make the pace a little slower than what you normally would in regular conversation and that will be a good pace for the interpretation. Don't be too concerned about trying to fit everything into five minutes. We'll give you a little bit of latitude there.
Let's begin with Ms. Dupuis from Nunavut Tourism.
Colleen Dupuis Chief Executive Officer, Nunavut Tourism
I'd like to begin by thanking everyone for this opportunity and for your coming to Iqaluit to hear our concerns.
By way of a bit of background, Nunavut Tourism was formed in 1995. It was the first organization that brought together the three regions of Nunavut. Our vision is to have an environmentally responsible and economically viable tourism industry in this territory that is characterized by professional delivery and operating in harmony with Nunavut culture and tradition.
We've been doing this for about 15 years and we've met with a great deal of success, but there are still a number of challenges facing the industry in this territory. We can deal with some of them, such as a small operator liability insurance program, ourselves, but there are a number of other things we need help with, particularly federal help.
These needs fall into three main categories. We had our annual general meeting a couple of weeks ago and these concerns came from our broader-based membership and board of directors. Because we knew we were coming here, this is something that was discussed and that the industry has agreed on.
The first one is infrastructure. There needs to be a lot better infrastructure in Nunavut. These needs are widespread. Federal dollars have helped with this type of infrastructure in other northern cities, such as Yellowknife, Dawson, and Whitehorse, but they have been largely neglected in the communities in Nunavut, even in the capital here.
Some of these needs include roads and trail development. We have been working on getting a bridge across the Sylvia Grinnell River to expand trail development since 1995. That is a project the federal government made a commitment to, but because of delays the costs have continued to go up from 1995 dollars and we still don't have that in place. That will allow us to develop tourism and park activities on the other side, in one of our territorial parks. There are other needs for that as well, but that is one example.
We also need more paved runways to increase air traffic capacity and safety. Most of the smaller communities do not have paved runways, which leads to the possibility that some jet flights—certain sizes of planes—cannot land there. Unfortunately, some tourists just don't want to land on a gravel runway. And if you have never done that, it can be an interesting experience. That capacity would also help in a number of other things within the community as well.
Better docking facilities in communities would help with tourism and other economic development in terms of fisheries, our annual sealift, and a number of other issues.
The assistance with infrastructure also goes to the fact that we need more small planes. That's not just for the airlines, but some of the communities and other partners that could participate in tourism if we had more planes available.
The second broad category is training. There is a widespread need for training. That's everything from how to start small businesses and making them work, specialized guide and outfitter training, and marine craft operation, to how to work with foreign tourists. We need better programs from federal departments that fit the needs of the north, and Nunavut in particular. We're not a one-size-fits-all environment. Some of the programs of HRSDC that work in downtown Toronto don't work here. That is one of the reasons the programs here are underutilized now.
We at Nunavut Tourism would like to work with the federal government to develop a training opportunity program exclusively for the Nunavut tourism industry. There are particular needs here that must be addressed.
One of the key things to remember is that tourism is one of the few economic drivers that every community in Nunavut can participate in. Some communities have a good offshore fishery or are close to mining deposits or whatever, and that gives them a bit of an advantage. But every community in Nunavut has tourism potential. It is one of the economic drivers everyone can participate in. It is also one of the economic drivers that keeps a lot of the money made by outfitters and small business operators in the north. There is not a lot of it going south when it is a community-based operation. Training would be a significant step in developing businesses in small communities and in developing the tourism industry infrastructure.
The third main issue is marketing and promotion. For years now we have been saying that programs are different north of 60. There have been some changes to some of the CTC programs and other things on a pan-territorial basis. We have found that they still don't fit Nunavut. Nunavut is different in terms of our experience, level of infrastructure, and what we can offer. Even our budget is different from the NWT and Yukon.
On this front, we have a few suggestions. Instead of programs the CTC currently offers that match dollar for dollar other jurisdictions, we suggest that for Nunavut it be a two-to-one ratio. Our budgets are considerably lower than other destinations, and we need that extra assistance.
The CTC also needs to better understand Nunavut. This came to our attention recently because of a passport program the CTC is doing for 2010 in Vancouver. They were advertising Nunavut as having reindeer. We don't have any reindeer. We've checked their website and some other things, and it has been changed. But that's a bit of problem when people don't even understand what they're trying to promote and they put out the wrong message. There were a few other things in the passport we had to change, but the reindeer kind of got us.
Pan-territorial solutions do not work. We work with the NWT and Yukon on some CTC programs, such as our buy-in to the German market, because we have to work together to be able to buy in at the levels they have. To make any impact right now, the base level is $130,000. None of us can afford that on our own. We have to work together. When we market together like that we are often presented at the table as a poorer cousin, because we are still buying in at 20% of something and not at a higher level.
The other thing we found is that the basic mandate of the CTC is failing for Nunavut. We are not able to buy in to the national campaigns. We are not being represented properly. In the copies of my presentation I have provided a print of what the CTC mandate is so you can see what I'm talking about rather than having to look it up.
In conclusion, those are some of the things we feel are not working. Nunavut has huge potential. It has the potential to become a leader in ecotourism and adventure tourism and to create a sustainable tourism industry. All communities have the potential to be successful and have products they can deliver. We need solutions to help us make this happen that are for Nunavut, not federal programs that work in other jurisdictions and do not work here.
Nunavut Tourism and the tourism industry in Nunavut want to work to form a successful and valuable partnership to see this happen. We feel that you guys coming here is a good step in that direction.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Thank you very much, Madam Dupuis.
We'll now go to Mr. Chris West, who is the president of the Baffin Regional Chamber of Commerce. Mr. West, go ahead.