Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 24th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Lévesque, for your questions and answers.

Now, it is over to—

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I think Simeonie wants to comment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Pardon me. Go ahead with a short response.

[Simeonie Akpalialuk]

I'd like to quickly respond to his question. We do have a breakwater in Pangnirtung, and we'll be developing a full port in the next three years as a result of funding from the federal government.

To answer your question on the high cost of running these communities, I don't think it is a very high cost, considering our position in the world. Would you rather see us negotiate with another country or stay with Canada? The cost is there, and if you want to keep this part of the country in Canada, you have to pay for it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Akpalialuk.

Now we will go to Ms. Hughes. We welcome Ms. Hughes to our committee for the first time. She is the member for...

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

It's Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I forgot “Algoma”. It is Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing

in northern Ontario.

Go ahead, Madam Hughes, for five minutes.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you very much for your presentation and for being part of the panel today. It's extremely important. I come from an area that houses about 17 first nations, so some of what you mentioned is similar to what some of my first nations and first nations across Canada are struggling with.

You mentioned out-migration, Mr. Long. Certainly that's an item of importance to all of our communities. It is more so for your area because of how far this would take your young people away. It is not like they could come home easily and decide to use some of the skills they obtained elsewhere closer to home, knowing they could afford to come back. That is something we certainly recognize, because the cost of living up here is just unbelievable.

Mayor Elisapee, you talked about the sharing of resources, and that's an important part of it. You say you need to have access to a fairly shared process--fair compensation for resources that are extracted. The extraction of non-renewable resources has been and remains a key feature of economic development through the north. What is the current situation on resource sharing in your territory? What are your expectations on that? Where do you see the deficiency?

We have been arguing that for our first nations communities as well. We should be giving them a better share of the resources that are extracted. They would certainly be able to be much more independent.

[Elisapee Sheutiapik]

Thank you.

That's why we have been quite vocal. Through the process, municipalities are not involved in the resource revenues. As new mines develop, the federal government, the territorial government, and the NGOs--NTI, QIA, or the regionals--work together to determine what the benefits will be. But municipalities are not at the table.

We're not saying we want to be at the table, but please recognize that we need some of that revenue to hopefully produce well-needed infrastructure. As municipalities we need to plan, so this is just another area. We know we are going to have mining being developed, so what do we need to do today? Do we need to train? Where? Is devolution going to happen beforehand?

We need to plan all this properly. We've been quite vocal, but we're not involved in that process, and that has been a challenge.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

I think you should be at the table. You should be part of the consultation process. Part of that consultation process should probably also include the requirement that a percentage of the jobs be local. Some of that resource money should actually come in, and part of that includes the training we've heard the need for. I think you have some big challenges, and you're right to ask to be there.

There was also some mention of the federal government with respect to the development being unrealistic with regard to the reporting. For first nations in my area, and I'm sure for the Inuit people here, we have seen that the reporting requirements are much more stringent than for regular businesses or regular municipalities. I believe, Mark, you're the one who mentioned that. I'm wondering where you need to see the changes occur.

As well, you mentioned CanNor, and I know this is a fairly new agency. We have something called FedNor. With this new government we have been struggling to have projects approved in a short period of time. Locally the power has been removed, and it's basically sitting in the minister's office. Almost every project needs to be approved now, no matter how small, and often the request for dollars is approved after the fact, after the actual event has occurred. I'm wondering what your experience with CanNor has been like so far.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We're a little over time right now, so if you can give a short response, Mr. Morrissey, it would be great. Thank you.

[Mark Morrissey]

In answer to your second question about dealings with CanNor, CanNor is still in its infancy. So far it's just INAC in CanNor clothing. Our relationship with CanNor to date has been fairly good, and we are getting to know the deputy minister. She is here regularly. They do have some senior staff here in Iqaluit, and we talk to them on a regular basis.

From what we are told.... Even though the situation is still the same and the minister must sign off in Ottawa, the relationship has been good, and I think it's because of the collaborative approach that we have taken with this agency right from the get-go. We're optimistic that it will continue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much, Ms. Hughes and Mr. Morrissey.

We'll now go to Mr. Rickford for five minutes.

Mr. Rickford, go ahead.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm Greg Rickford and I'm the member of Parliament for the great Kenora riding. We have quite a few similarities in terms of the challenges of isolated and remote communities. We are probably about one-third the size of your riding, but span from just south of the Trans-Canada Highway to the shores of Hudson Bay.

My perspective has been enriched in this study to the extent that I've had the opportunity to work as a nurse in Arviat and formerly in Cambridge Bay. I do have a frame of reference that's quite local, and I have a number of friends who worked in your community.

I want to say from the outset that I share the view that Canada's long-term stability--socially, economically, and in so many other ways--won't just be more thoroughly developed through a greater understanding of a north-south perspective, but may very well depend on that moving forward when we make considerations for resource development and the like.

Before I get into some of the substantive questions, I want to get a few facts on the ground.

Your Worship, you must be experiencing some migration from the isolated communities in this region to Iqaluit. At this point in time, do you know roughly what percentage of the permanent population is from some of the communities in the outlying region?

[Elisapee Sheutiapik]

Iqaluit has a population of about 7,000. In 1990 we were roughly 3,400. That's a great question, because we have a lot of challenges.

I have a picture here of Frobisher Bay. In 1955 there were 67 people here, so we've developed....

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

I'm sorry, I'm just trying to work through my questions here.

I'm hearing, then, that since 1990 the population has probably doubled.

Are you aware of what the number of transient Nunavummiut is at any given time here in Iqaluit?

[Elisapee Sheutiapik]

I'll use Iqaluit as an example. We say 7,000, but that's including the transients. It's probably closer to roughly 6,700 permanent residents. The rest are transients.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Mr. Long, I have just a couple of quick questions. Do you have any information with respect to how many people from the region, specifically Inuit, perhaps in your economic development portfolio, are in senior management positions? Please drill down if you have statistics with respect to skilled workers who lead teams in various areas and in research as well.

[Robert Long]

Overall, I believe our civil service is now 53% Inuit. The top levels are actually higher than that. At the entry level, in the clerical-type jobs, it is quite high as well. I believe it is 67%. The biggest gap is in the middle, in the professions, where professional qualifications are required. Then it drops down to, I believe, about 25%.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Long.

I'm trying to gather some statistics that'll fit into a piece. Perhaps in another round I'll have a chance to ask.

Your Worship, you mentioned that the resource sector, specifically mining, had a strategy. It's no surprise to me that they were looking to the government for their resource contributions for sustainable development. Did they have any input in terms of what they could do to ensure that? I suspect that the bulk of their workers and suppliers come from outside the region, certainly in some of the more advanced stages of planning and implementation. I didn't read that report. Do you have a comment on what their commitment was to the region?

[Elisapee Sheutiapik]

Obviously, they recognized that there was opportunity to work together at the municipal level.

I'll use the example of Baffin Land, when they were operational. Because of capacity, all our heavy equipment operators took over the mining. It was a band-aid solution. How can we work together? How many of those kinds of skills do we know? Those were the kinds of conversations we had.

Also, I just want to point out that when it comes to resource development, none of that revenue is coming to our territory right now. It's all going to the federal level. That has really been why we've been vocal. It is to ensure that it's sustainable.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Right, okay. I understand.

I have just one more question, very briefly, in case I don't get a chance to return to this. There was an announcement this year of $300 million to a northern housing trust. My understanding is that there was a $50 million allocation to each territory, but it was $150 million for urgent needs in Nunavut.

Perhaps, Simeonie, you can describe what role the communities in the region play so I can understand how that trust will ensure appropriate allocations to meet some of the housing needs in the outlying communities.

[Simeonie Akpalialuk]

The communities are actually playing a pretty big role, because the municipalities are working with the housing programs to further develop this area. Right now, the majority of the houses we're looking at are 40 to 50 years old already.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Rickford.

Now we'll continue with the second round of questioning, and we'll begin with Mr. Bagnell for five minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Bagnell.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You don't need your translator. Je ne parle pas français.

I'm the critic for the Arctic and a member of Parliament for the Yukon. I've been here before and have met a number of you. It's great to be back.

I just marked your words on Industry Canada. They were personally music to my ears, because I used to direct a full Industry Canada office in the Yukon. They closed it, so I had to find this other job. But I think it's important. I would have still been there. I liked the job.

Mr. Akpalialuk, I just want you to give us a feeling of the difference between the capital city, Iqaluit, and the communities. Most Canadians have never been to Nunavut, and of the few who have, most of them have never been outside the capital. There's a totally different environment outside the capital cities in the north. There are a lot more challenges in development. I wonder if you could give us and Canadians just a bit of perspective on the challenges in the rural communities as opposed to the capital cities.