Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 26th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you.

We now give the floor to the Bloc québécois. Mr. Lemay, it is your turn.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Welcome, Commissioner.

Thank you for being here. We met previously at the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights and you know how much of a statistics freak I am.

Could you tell me why it is impossible to get the figures for the penitentiaries in Alberta? Do you have the number of detainees?

[Don Head]

For the federal system?

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Yes.

[Don Head]

Yes. It depends specifically on what figures you're looking for.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Could you tell me what the incarceration rate for Aboriginal is for 2007-08 and 2008-09? I mean the figures per 100,000 residents.

[Don Head]

For the province of Alberta?

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I am talking about all of Canada.

[Don Head]

I don't have the figures with me. I think the ones that the correctional investigator shared with you earlier during his testimony were the figures we're familiar with. Nothing he cited seemed to be out of proportion.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I have the figures for 2005-06. It is 983 per 100,000 residents, whereas it was 815 per 100,000 residents in 2001-02. So I would like to have them for the following years. Could you provide us with these figures?

[Don Head]

Yes, we can provide you with the figures.

Those figures sound to be in the right zone.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

In your presentation, you talked about incarceration. Allow me to quote you:

Aboriginal offenders tend to be younger, and have higher risk and needs than non-Aboriginal offenders. Many have a lengthier criminal history with a greater percentage of violent convictions and gang affiliations.

Could you provide us with the average length of sentences Aboriginals are serving in Canada's penitentiaries?

[Don Head]

Yes. We looked at, in comparison, two sets of figures that we can give you in terms of the admissions. We know that aboriginal offenders who come into our system, compared to non-aboriginal offenders at the time of admission, are coming in with a sentence that's about a month shorter than non-aboriginal offenders. And looking at the incarcerated population on any given day, the aboriginal offender population is serving a sentence on average about seven months shorter than a non-aboriginal offender.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Seven months, that is not much compared to 20 years. I would like to know the average length of sentences given to Aboriginals compared to those of non-Aboriginals.

[Don Head]

Oui, pas de problème. We can provide that to the committee.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I would like to know the average age of Aboriginals compared to that of non-Aboriginals. Could you provide us with these figures?

[Don Head]

Certainly.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I listened to you and I read your presentation but I mostly listened to the two previous witnesses. I find there is a lot of work to do. I saw some interesting ideas in your plan. We will probably see you again next year since it is my intention to invite you back. How will you ensure that all these plans will be implemented?

[Don Head]

There are a couple of things. Through our accountability framework document that we produced this year, we have much more stringent measures to measure our progress. We know that in the first few years it's going to be incremental, and we hope that'll ramp up in the future years.

We also produce a document now, our aboriginal offenders “Milestones” document, that monitors every correctional aspect of aboriginal offenders versus non-aboriginal offenders as to program participation, day parole, full parole, grants, denials, readmissions, post-warrant expiry two years, five years. We have those documents that are available for us to measure, and documents that this committee can easily have access to as well, to watch the progress over the coming years.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I want to congratulate Mr. Clarke, which is a rare thing for me. He is still an RCMP officer and he is Aboriginal. I am from Quebec where we now have quite a few Aboriginal police officers, both in the RCMP and the Sûreté du Québec as well as in the municipal police forces.

I notice there has been progress made with appointments at the level of warden, assistant warden and heads of institutions. But how about the guards who are in daily contact with Aboriginal detainees? They are mainly non-Aboriginals. Is this going to change? Is somebody looking into this?

[Don Head]

Very much so. As part of our overall human resource renewal strategy, we have a subsection that we're entitling our “aboriginal human resource renewal strategy”. Within that strategy we're addressing all the issues related to recruitment of aboriginal people, addressing the learning and development needs of our staff, the retention issue, so that we get these people to stay working with the correctional service. There's also knowledge transfer, as we have individuals who are getting close to retirement and leaving, getting them engaged with younger staff, newer staff, to transfer their knowledge and experience so they can build on that.

We're engaged this year, and in the coming couple of years, in a very intensive approach to hiring more aboriginal staff. The majority of staff that we hire who are of aboriginal ancestry usually come into the organization at the correctional officer level.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Head and Mr. Lemay.

Now we'll go to Ms. Crowder, for seven minutes.

Go ahead, Ms. Crowder.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Head, for coming before the committee.

As the correctional investigator noted, I think there are many good intentions within CSC in attempting to fulfill their mandate, but there are challenges in terms of the ongoing problems with aboriginal offenders within the CSC.

You're aware, of course, that the correctional investigator has recommended that there be a deputy commissioner responsible and that the department has strongly indicated it won't be doing that. His concern is that without that kind of structure in place, we won't see the kind of results that are needed.

Are you confident that within the structure the approach to aboriginal offenders is going to get the results?

[Don Head]

Yes, I'm absolutely confident that with the new approach we're taking, which includes enhancements to our strategic plan, the introduction of our accountability framework, the internal governance structures, and the manner in which I engage our entire executive committee around the issue of aboriginal offenders within the federal system, that will move the yardsticks.

Since I've been commissioner, I have reactivated the national aboriginal advisory committee. I have several significantly high-profile individuals from the community across the country, representing first nations, Métis—

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

On that point, when was the last time they met?