Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

As anticipated, there are quite a few questions. There are about two minutes left, so perhaps going back to look at the debates will tell you what you need to get.

Go ahead if you want to just touch on some of those, Mr. Wernick.

[Michael Wernick]

I'll touch on as many as I can and we will follow up on them in writing.

Let me start by saying that I'll have to disappoint you. We'll be back for supplementary estimates on food mail next year. We haven't secured a permanent base for the program yet. We still live in hope.

Carcross First Nation is at the table right now and there are issues, as you know, between the territorial government and the first nation about how they're going to work together, which we certainly hope will be resolved. We are guardedly optimistic.

I can get you data on ABC. No, we don't have any extra money for that. I think the fact that so many projects are coming in is a good sign, in a strange way, because there's so much economic activity on reserve now and there's so much aboriginal entrepreneurship that we're under pressure. But in a strange way that's kind of a good sign of what's going on out in communities.

I don't know the status of the CPC appointments. I'll certainly inform you as quickly as possible and I'll try to find out what's going on in the Yukon in terms of land claims implementation. There you go: just-in-time delivery. Part of that, in fact, is $2.8 million for the Yukon Environmental and Socio-economic Assessment Board, better known as YESAB, for its operating costs, because they've had a higher level of activity, as you know. In fact, all of the northern regulatory boards are doing a roaring business because of the amount of activity.

In terms of the International Polar Year, there actually has been a lot of money going into the field science, not just the infrastructure. We can prepare a table for the committee if that's useful. It will drop off after International Polar Year unless there are decisions in future budgets by future cabinets, but it has been quite busy and it will continue. The IPY fieldwork actually carries on into this year, and some of the wrap-up money into next year.

I'm not sure I can say more on the B.C. treaty process. I hope we'll have a couple more finals early in 2010. We are trying to resolve the fisheries issues that seem to be an impediment. There aren't many first nations in B.C. that aren't on the water in one way or the other.

On the vote issue, I'm in over my head. I will have to turn to the chief financial officer on that.

[Jim Quinn, Chief Financial Officer, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

On the question of vote 1(b) for $97 million, the details on how it is broken out in the various niches are on page 185 of the English supplementaries and on page 108 of the French. It's a combination of pre-profiling and new money.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Bagnell, Mr. Wernick, and Mr. Quinn.

Now we'll go to Mr. Dreeshen for five minutes.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here this morning.

I just want to expand somewhat on what Mr. Duncan talked about with regard to first nations education. I wonder if you could give us an update on the types of initiatives taking place that are addressing some of the needs at this time.

[Michael Wernick]

Thank you for your question.

I won't go over the school facilities issue again. It has been helpful in a number of communities. There is still a lot of work to be done on school facilities across the country, but we have been able to make some progress.

The other two initiatives announced in December 2008 focus on getting at the underpinnings of how the actual education system works. We have the partnership fund and the school success program. They are designed to get to the actual schools and to be done, wherever possible, with willing partners. The work is often between first nations authorities and provincial ministries of education, colleges, and universities, the people who know about teacher training, curricula development, the application of new technologies, and ways of getting more effective results in schools.

We put that out in a hurry in the spring, no question, and there was a bit of static about how quickly that was done, but we had enormous take-up. It's another one of these good problems to have. There is a lot of activity and a lot of interest in improving school outcomes.

We all know that if we could fix one thing in this portfolio, it would be the high-school graduation rate. There is still so much more to be done.

But these two programs are actually drawing out the actual, practical, on-the-ground kinds of things that will help classroom teachers and the people who run the schools.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

I am a former high-school math teacher, so I have a lot of interest in the types of things that are available. One of the things we discussed was broadband capabilities and the opportunity for different delivery systems. I am just wondering if we're looking at that as well. It's not just the type of things that can be taught; it is about the different ways to get into those communities.

[Michael Wernick]

That's absolutely true. My 17-year-old does most of his homework through Google and Wikipedia, which I'm sometimes not sure is a good idea. Anyway, it probably works better for math.

There has been a Government of Canada effort to expand broadband coverage for some time. We picked up the SchoolNet responsibilities from Industry Canada a few years ago. There is an effort to deal with the expansion and the covering costs for that.

Technically there isn't really a big problem, because we have satellite-based Internet everywhere in the country. What often is the issue now is getting it into that last mile within a community and getting it to the kid in the basement or the business or whatever.

These issues of wireless networks and that sort of thing have now become issues within communities. I don't have all the numbers on this, but there was stimulus money for expansion of rural broadband and we were able to see some very interesting initiatives. In fact, a number of provincial governments have really stepped up. There are even some P3 partnerships with some of the telecom companies, which of course want to get to these communities.

The payoff in terms of education, small business development, telehealth, and so on is just enormous. It is a very good value-for-money investment.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

How are some of those P3 partnerships working? Have you looked into that in a lot of detail? People always have questions, but I am just wondering what your experiences are.

[Michael Wernick]

We find that the telecom companies are quite eager, actually. If they're building out a network of towers or expanding their networks to get high-end coverage expanded in rural regions or outside of the big cities, they're quite happy to play and get involved. We're trying to get our efforts aligned with the provincial governments to see what we can do. There are some very promising initiatives in British Columbia in particular and we're working on something in northern Ontario that we hope will bear fruit.

As I said, a lot of that is within the communities. It's that last-mile issue. It's about making sure that the 17-year-old first nations kid on a reserve is doing the same kind of laptop-based research to get his essay done that my son does.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

If I have some time, I want to ask whether you have any idea on just how the Olympics are going to help bring our aboriginal people, their voices and so on, into the public domain.

[Michael Wernick]

The front responsibilities for the Olympics are with the Ministry of Canadian Heritage and Minister Moore, but we work very closely with them to ensure that there's a very strong aboriginal engagement in the games. I'd have to say that VANOC has been very enthusiastic about that. It hasn't been difficult to get that kind of engagement.

There is a four-host first nation entity. If any of you have met Tewanee Joseph, who is the head of that, you know what a dynamic individual he is. There are first nations representatives on all the decision-making bodies of the games. They're active from the bid committee right through to the implementation.

Two things in particular that we've been involved in are an aboriginal youth gathering that will take place during the games period and an aboriginal pavilion and showcasing opportunity. There's also some economic development showcasing possibilities for aboriginal and Inuit businesses.

The most important things are the legacy agreements with the four host first nations. Each of them is getting resources that will leave a legacy in those communities. They'll decide how to spend them and how to use them. I think the four first nations have actually been a very, very big part of the Olympics.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you.

It is now over to Mr. Lévesque, for five minutes.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, gentlemen.

I am looking at page 5 of your report, Mr. Wernick, where it says that the department invests $1.3 billion annually. It also says that a significant number of communities have received new infrastructure funding to build better schools and community facilities that will keep youth in school and on the path to a better future. Very often, the suicide rate in these communities is very high; young people do not even have a future. To put them on the path to a better future, you first have to give them a future, period.

I got a request last year, and I think it was sent to you, as well. Perhaps you'll tell me that they are amounts given to Quebec and that Quebec is responsible for the request, but we can discuss that later. It was for an international music program that helps young drop-outs return to school and, in many cases, prevents other young people from committing suicide. A request has been pending for a year now—and the amount is minimal—to run a regular music class, in order to help kids get back in school.

Could you speak to that issue directly? If the money is given to Quebec, could we eventually get a breakdown of the funds given to Quebec in order to administer various programs?

[Michael Wernick]

Thank you for your question.

First of all, the suicide rate in first nations and Inuit communities in the north is totally unacceptable for the entire country. We do what we can, with the resources we have, to tackle that problem. I will find out about the project you mentioned. Those kinds of projects are funded and supported by departments such as Canadian Heritage and Official Languages or Health Canada, but I think we can give the committee an idea of what we are doing. All the files have one thing in common. The more economic development there is, the more hope for the future, the more hope for employment, the more hope for a better education. That is part of the solution to this major problem.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

It is the Young Musicians of the World program in Kitcisakik. We know what goes on there. It could, at the very least, help save young people. The instructor was able to help a young boy who had climbed up on the roof of a house and was going to jump. By teaching him music, the instructor was able to get him back in school. The boy gave a performance just recently, and it was fantastic.

Furthermore, according to page 6, there is approximately $250 million in total for the Olympic Games. Four Cree nations in my riding were asked to take responsibility for the 2010 Aboriginal Pavilion at the Vancouver games. By all indications, they have not received the funding required. In my riding, we are working on a request so they can assume the responsibilities they were asked to fulfil.

Were funds allocated to a given agency in this case? If so, how are they distributed?

[Michael Wernick]

Unless I am mistaken, the funding, around $3 million in total, goes through the Four Host First Nations Society. If there is a problem between the people at the organization and the Cree nations, we might be able to discuss it and find a solution, but I think that the funding agreement is in place.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Just 10 seconds.

Thank you, Mr. Lévesque.

Mr. Payne, you have the floor for five minutes.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thanks to the department's officials for coming today.

First, on page 185 of the supplementary estimates, I'm looking at “Funding to support the implementation of initiatives under the new Federal Framework for Aboriginal Economic Development”. That's some $30 million, if I read it correctly. Could you give us some insight on that funding and how it's going to be spent by the department?

[Michael Wernick]

We can't do everything at once, but the priorities this year have been to get new financing tools in place. We're rolling out a new loan loss program, which will provide new sources of financing to aboriginal businesses. That is operational and there has already been some take-up.

The other priority has been to revitalize the process of adding lands to reserves that can be used for economic development purposes. They were in a sort of lineup system, yielding to treaty obligations, and there were a number of projects for additions to reserve that were sitting in the queue.

So we put some resources into accelerating additions to reserve for economic purposes and there has been quite a lot of progress on that, actually, particularly because the western provinces have started to be much more forthcoming with provincial crown land. You're seeing lands in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta in particular move into the pipeline for addition to reserve. This is happening much more quickly and is much more forthcoming than was the case five years ago.

Those are two particular priorities.

The other issue has been getting the federal house in order on the opportunities from federal government procurement for aboriginal businesses. We've made a lot of progress on that.

There are issues around land management and environmental regulation. Resources are going into that program, which was touched on in the Auditor General's most recent report. There was about $30 million over four years for trying, again, to increase the throughput for that program.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I also have some questions regarding the launch of the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency. What has the department done to ensure a smooth launch for CanNor?

[Michael Wernick]

Well, we had the advantage of knowing it was coming, so the Northern Affairs organization under Mr. Borbey, who is here with me, did a lot of work to make it as smooth a hand-off as possible on launch day. A lot of work was done.

We had to deal with the renewal of the basic programming structure of the department, the sign-in programs, strategic initiatives, and northern economic development. We got that through cabinet. We got the Treasury Board submissions written and done that would provide the basic funding for the organization. We identified the people who could go on day one from INAC and were ready to do that. We have these multi-party agreements in each of the territories on what the priorities are. We pushed ahead and had those in very good shape to hand over to the new agency.

During this whole period, we were haggling, pushing, and advocating to make sure that the agency would be able to do some things in infrastructure in RInC and so on. We were talking to HRSDC, the human resources department, about how the agency would deliver their programs.

I'd like to think that as these things go in moving from one organization to another the torch was passed as well as it could have been. The agency is up and running, and it has been very busy visiting and meeting with northerners. It will very much be a northern agency. Its headquarters are in Iqaluit. It'll be guided very much by input from northerners on their priorities.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I was looking at the $15 million for a community adjustment fund. I'm wondering if there have been any particular projects identified under that for CanNor.

[Michael Wernick]

I'll have to get some information on that. I believe so, but I don't have that at my fingertips. I'm sorry.