Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 24th, 2009

[The Acting Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is the fifth meeting of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

Today we have presentations from Statistics Canada and the First Nations Statistical Institute. We have the director, Jane Badets, from Statistics Canada, and we'll lead off with Ms. Badets.

Perhaps you could start by introducing the person who is with you today. You have approximately 10 minutes. We'll have your presentation, followed by that of the First Nations Statistical Institute, and then we'll go to questions from members.

Ms. Badets.

[Jane Badets, Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada]

I want to thank the chair and the committee for inviting Statistics Canada here today.

I'm going to try to do this in 10 minutes, but we always have so much data and so many interesting trends to present that it is always a little challenging.

I am here with my colleague, Cathy Connors, who is the assistant director of the aboriginal statistics program at Statistics Canada. We'll be pleased to answer your questions after the presentation.

I think you have copies of the presentation in front of you. I'm going to be presenting some data, so I'll just tell you where I am on various slides.

I am now on slide 2. We were asked to present some selected results from the 2006 census. We have recently released information from two aboriginal surveys, the 2006 aboriginal children’s survey and the aboriginal peoples survey, and you asked me to speak a little bit about our relationship with the First Nations Statistical Institute.

There is certainly too much information from these data sources to present to you in this short period of time, but I'll present to you some very key trends today.

Turning to slide 3, before presenting the trends, I'd like to first talk about concepts. Statistics Canada has four concepts for identifying the aboriginal population, and we ask about them on the census and generally in our aboriginal surveys. They are aboriginal ancestry, aboriginal identity, whether a person is a registered Indian or a treaty Indian according to the Indian Act, and whether a person is a member of an Indian band or a first nation.

Users can use these concepts in different ways according to their own program or information needs. In this presentation we're going to focus primarily on the aboriginal identity population, and that is people who self-identify as an aboriginal person and/or are registered and/or are a member of an Indian band or first nation.

Just beginning with the data trend for the census on slide 4, in 2006 1.2 million people reported having an aboriginal identity—that is the short pink line on the graph in front of you—compared with 1.7 million who reported aboriginal identity, the long blue line. As you can see, there has been a steady increase of people reporting either aboriginal ancestry or aboriginal identity in the census. These increases in recent years can be attributed to demographic factors such as higher birth rates, as well as to non-demographic factors—for example, increased numbers deciding to self-identify as an aboriginal person in the census.

On slide 5, of the three aboriginal groups, the largest increase in population between 2001 and 2006 was observed for the Métis, with a growth rate of 33%. Most of this increase was due to increased numbers self-identifying as Métis in the census. The second-highest growth rate was with the first nations or North American population who did not report as registered Indian. This group grew by 28%. In comparison, the non-aboriginal population grew at a much slower rate during this five-year period. In terms of actual population size, the first nations people were the largest group, followed by Métis, then the Inuit.

On slide 6 and the next couple of slides I'll just show you where the aboriginal population lived. Slide 6 shows that most first nations people live in Ontario and the west. They make up 3% or less, though, of the population of Ontario, Alberta, and British Columbia. In terms of the Métis, on slide 7, like the first nations population, most of the people who were identified as Métis live in the west and Ontario, and as you can see from this graph, the largest Métis population was in Alberta, then Ontario, and Manitoba.

On slide 8, in terms of the Inuit population, three-quarters or 78% lived in one of the four regions within Inuit Nunaat. This is an Inuktitut expression for Indian homeland and stretches from Labrador to the Northwest Territories.

Now I'll turn to the 2006 aboriginal children’s survey, and I'll just present you some initial findings from this survey. On slide 10 you'll see information about this survey, but I'll just say that it was conducted following the 2006 census. Up until now there had been little data available about the health and development of aboriginal children under the age of six, and the survey was designed to address this gap. Although the survey was primarily conducted off reserve and in the north, children living in some first nations communities in Quebec and the territories were included. You can see more information about how we conducted that survey on that slide.

On slide 11, first of all, from the census we learned that young first nations children living off reserve, and Métis and Inuit young children, that is, those under the age of six, are growing up in families that are unique in many ways, compared to the families of non-aboriginal children. Young aboriginal children are more likely than non-aboriginal children to have young parents, be part of a large family, be living in a lone-parent family, and be living with grandparents. You see some of the data supporting these statements on this slide.

On slide 12, parents were asked in this survey how the child spends time with various people in their lives, so you see that young first nations children living off reserve regularly spent time with not only their immediate family, such as their parents or siblings, but also with extended family and community members such as elders. Of note is that many young first nations children living off reserve, 68%, are spending time with their grandparents on a weekly basis. Similar trends were observed for Métis young children.

Slide 13 provides the same results for those who are spending time with young Inuit children. It is clear that Inuit children are spending time with a network of extended family and community members. About seven in ten are also receiving focused attention from grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins at least once a week. We've outlined that in the bars in the graph. These were higher proportions than those observed for young Métis and young off-reserve first nations children.

On slide 14, parents of off-reserve young first nations children were also asked to rate their feelings about their community as a place to raise children, in a number of areas, as listed on the slide. From this chart, we see that off-reserve first nations children, generally speaking, have parents who are satisfied with many aspects of the community as a place to raise children, but they were less satisfied with access to activities that promote traditional aboriginal culture and values. Similar trends were also observed for young Métis children.

Finally, regarding ratings of community as a place to raise children for Inuit, on slide 15 we see higher ratings of community facilities given by those living outside Inuit Nunaat. The only characteristic that did not receive higher ratings was aboriginal cultural activities, which were rated more highly by those living in Inuit Nunaat.

Now we'll look at the aboriginal peoples survey. On slide 17 there is information about this survey. The aboriginal peoples survey, which we refer to as the APS, was conducted between October 2006 and March 2007. It provides extensive data on Inuit, Métis, and off-reserve first nations children aged 6 to 14 and adults aged 15 and over living in urban, rural, and northern locations across Canada.

Three analytical articles were released just recently, providing initial findings from the survey. I will give you a brief overview of the school experiences of off-reserve first nations children aged 6 to 14, which was one of the analytical articles released.

On slide 19, parents of off-reserve first nations children were asked in the APS how well their child was doing based on their knowledge of their child's school work, such as report cards. In 2006, seven in ten off-reserve first nations children aged 6 to 14 were reported by their parents to be doing very well or well in school, based on their knowledge of their child's school work. These findings were similar to those for children aged 6 to 14 in the general Canadian population.

On slide 20, the study also looked at factors: factors associated with perceived achievement at school among off-reserve first nations children after holding constant other factors such as gender and age. The study found that factors associated with relatively high perceived achievement at school included--the slide lists these, but I will just give you a few--getting along well with teachers or classmates, having parents who were strongly satisfied with school practices, and reading books every day. Factors found to be associated with lower perceived achievement were: having missed school for two or more weeks in a row during the school year, having been diagnosed with a learning disability or attention deficit, or having parents who had attended residential schools.

We also released two articles, one on Métis health and one on Inuit health. I will just give you some very brief highlights from those and then conclude the presentation.

On slide 22, respondents were asked to rate their health in a five-point scale ranging from excellent to poor. This is a standard question that we ask in many of our health surveys. In 2006, nearly six in ten, 58%, Métis aged 15 and over reported that their health was excellent or very good, the same proportion as in 2001. This compared to 62% of the population of Canada who rated their health as excellent or very good.

Turning to slide 23, in 2006, just over half, 54%, of all Métis aged 15 and over reported that they had been diagnosed with a chronic condition, about the same proportion as was reported in 2001. The most commonly reported chronic conditions among Métis adults were arthritis, rheumatism, high blood pressure, and asthma. In all three cases, rates among Métis were higher than they were in the general population after standardizing for age differences.

Finally, in terms of health care utilization--slide 24--Métis aged 15 and over were slightly less likely to have seen a family doctor in the 12 months prior to the survey, compared with the total population of Canada.

I'll just give you a couple of similar highlights on Inuit health and chronic conditions.

Slide 26 shows the percentage of Inuit and of the total population aged 15 and over who self-rate their health as excellent or very good. For all age groups, a lower proportion of Inuit rated their health to be excellent or very good than was the case for the total population.

The most frequently reported chronic conditions among Inuit, on slide 27, were arthritis and high blood pressure. The rates were about the same as those for the total Canadian population, after differences by age group were controlled for.

In terms of health care utilization, on slide 28, Inuit were less likely than others to have contact with a doctor. This was true for Inuit in all age groups. Few Inuit communities have a resident doctor. The point of first contact with the medical system is with a nurse. Inuit requiring the services of a doctor are usually flown out of their community for treatment in a larger centre.

Finally, we were asked just to speak briefly of our relationship with the First Nations Statistical Institute, the FNSI. I know you're going to have a presentation today from the chair of FNSI. I'll just talk very briefly on this. In terms of the relationship, the relationship is outlined to some extent in the legislation, the First Nations Fiscal and Statistical Management Act. That states that FNSI will work in cooperation with Statistics Canada to ensure that the national statistical system better meets the needs of first nations and the government. As well, the chief statistician is an ex officio member of the FNSI board of directors. FNSI will play an important role in the national statistical system. Both FNSI and Statistics Canada will work together, building on their respective strengths to improve statistics for first nations.

That concludes my presentation. On the very last page, there are links to other information on our website where you can find more detail on some of the analysis I presented today. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Ms. Badets.

We went a little over there, but we do have some latitude here today.

Our next presenter, as Ms. Badets alluded to, and a good segue to our next presentation, is the chair of the First Nations Statistical Institute, Mr. Mark Dockstator.

Mr. Dockstator, ten minutes. Please, if you wish to introduce who's attending with you today, that would be wonderful. Thank you.

[Dr. Mark Dockstator, Chairman, First Nations Statistical Institute]

First, thank you very much, Mr. Chair and committee, for the invitation to come and present this morning. It is wonderful to be here, but I have to extend the apologies of our vice-chair, Judy White, who was intending to be here. Unfortunately, she was coming in from the east coast and was stuck yet again at another airport. I think this was the third trip when she has tried to get out to somewhere other than the east coast and couldn't make it, so I am passing along her apologies to the committee.

I'll introduce Carla Di Giusto, who is one of our staff members for the First Nations Statistical Institute. She is here to assist.

I don't have a written presentation for the committee. I thought I would give a verbal update as to where we are as an organization.

The First Nations Statistical Institute, or FNSI, the acronym most people refer to us by, is a brand-new organization. Last year at this time we did not yet have a full board. We've only had a full board and been legally constituted as an organization for one year. I thought I would take a few minutes of your time to give you an update as to where we are, where we have come from, and our relationship with Statistics Canada.

As I mentioned, last year at this time we had yet to have our full board appointed. I was appointed in the spring of 2007, and I'm a part-time chair. A year later the board was fully constituted, and we have met four times in the last year to get the business of the organization up and operating; that is, to become legally constituted as an organization, to pass our bylaws, to appoint our officers with the requirements in the legislation, to get our audit committee up and operating, and essentially to get us to the position where we could develop and then pass our first corporate plan, which we did. We put that into the Treasury Board submission process. Our corporate plan and Treasury Board submission went in front of Treasury Board in November of last year and we received our funding this year. We are now in the process of developing and passing our second corporate plan and putting that into the Treasury Board submission process as well.

Up until this point in the development of FNSI, we have received interim funding from Statistics Canada and the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs, where they were expending moneys on behalf of FNSI. We have secured our own budget only recently and are operating with that.

From the perspective of accomplishments of the board to date, the board has been very active to get us up and operating. Again, it's unique to be a crown corporation and not to have been an organization before. There wasn't an organization in place where we just changed the name to FNSI. We are essentially starting from the ground up. There was no infrastructure, no organization, and the staff we have been working with--and we have three or four staff at this point--have been on loan from other organizations through various measures within the government.

Essentially we've accomplished everything we have with a very limited budget, a small number of staff, and no outside consultants. We are a very active and a very small organization, but one that, at this point, is just starting to build the organization with its own budget and to look into our future development.

Looking to the future, our next big task is to hire our chief statistician. Under the legislation, the First Nations Fiscal and Statistical Management Act, the chief statistician first has to be hired in order for us to then hire our staff. Until then, we're still essentially an interim organization with interim staffing arrangements. Once our chief statistician is hired, and that will be a thorough and transparent national competition, we can then start hiring our staff and become operational as an organization.

In the meantime, the board and the staffing that we do have on an interim basis are very active in building the organization, building the crown corporation, in order to ensure that when we get to the point of hiring our chief statistician, the organization will be in place and everything that we require will be there for us, as an organization, to meet the challenges that we find in front of us.

It has been a very active year for the board, in summary. We have, I think, accomplished a lot with a minimal amount of funding, with a very small number of staff and with little outside assistance from consultants. We've had our full slate of four board meetings in one year to pass the corporate plan and get it accepted into the Treasury Board submission process.

We do have in front of us, as a board, a number of very important challenges in building the organization. Our next board meeting is to take a breath somewhat and go back and look at some of the things that we had to rush through as a matter of necessity to get to this point, such as what the organization will look like and the details of how we will work with our partners such as Statistics Canada, Indian and Northern Affairs, the Assembly of First Nations, and other organizations that we will be developing strong partnerships with.

That is a very brief update of a newly formed crown corporation that has a very active board and has accomplished a great deal in the last year to get us to the point that we are at right now.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Merci beaucoup.

Members, I appreciate your patience with the extra heat in here. We have asked the staff of the building to see what they can do to correct this. I appreciate your patience and understanding. We'll do our best.

We now move to questions from members. Let us start with the Liberals.

Mr. Russell, you have the floor.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Good morning, Mr. Chair, and thank you.

Good morning to each of our witnesses.

I have just a couple of questions for clarification.

In terms of FNSI, what was the rationale for the development of this new, I believe you used the words, “crown corporation”? I know in the past there's been some angst, I guess, about Statistics Canada and the work they have conducted, particularly on reserves. There were some debates about the accuracy of the information and how it was being relayed.

Is that part of why FNSI came about or are there other reasons? What's the mandate of FNSI itself? I just want some clarification on that.

[Dr. Mark Dockstator]

Thanks very much.

The question has three parts. I'll respond to the first part. I wasn't involved in the lead-up to the creation of FNSI, so I have to rely on the record as much as anybody else. In the creation of FNSI and outside of that, I think there were a number of discussions about the nature of the information that first nations had access to or that they could use.

We as a board took that background, and when we looked at that question of what is the purpose of FNSI, what is our mandate, it was in more of a positive manner and we said, “Well, whatever has gone on in the past, we are here to be a mechanism to build better and stronger relationships with first nations. We will do that by improving the communications that occur between first nations and the other partners that we work with as an institution.”

As we know, the world works on information, works on data, and we said, if we could, in our role as FNSI, improve the communications between those who are generating the data, whoever that might be, and those who are receiving the data or using the data, either first nations or organizations on their behalf, we would do so, and then we took that as being our mandate in the very positive way of saying that our role here is to build better and stronger relationships with first nations.

The second part of the question concerns the specific mandate we have. That's the philosophical approach that we bring as an organization. Our specific mandate has two components under the legislation. The first component is to support, essentially, economic development on first nations territories, on reserves across Canada. The First Nations Fiscal and Statistical Management Act has within its purpose the ability for first nations to tax real property interests and to then take that and pool those reserves in order to issue a bond on the public market to fund the infrastructure. We are there to support those first nations and those three other institutions under the legislation to ensure that there is up-to-date information for that bond issue.

Under the legislation, we also have another component to our mandate, which is a much broader one, to look at all other issues surrounding first nations data and information, not just with respect to those first nations going forward under the legislation, for that bond issue.

The third part to the question is that when we look forward we know we'll be revising our vision in going forward with that. As I said, we do have very good relationships with all our partners. For example, as Jane was mentioning, the Chief Statistician of Canada is on our board as an ex officio member, and we do meet on a regular basis to ensure that we have strong communications and that our efforts as we go forward will be meshing one with the other.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

So FNSI itself doesn't have the capacity or doesn't have the mandate to gather information. That still rests with Statistics Canada. Is that correct?

[Dr. Mark Dockstator]

There are two parts to that. We would have the mandate but not the capacity. We are a very small, limited organization that would not have the types of financial resources to do the things that a larger organization such as Statistics Canada could, although our mandate would cover that type of activity.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Okay, thank you.

My next question is for Statistics Canada. There's quite a lot of information here in the stretch of 10 minutes, and you can only be so comprehensive, but there was very little data on first nations on-reserve populations within the presentation itself. Was there some reason for that?

[Jane Badets]

No. We had been here in June and we presented quite a bit from the census on that. We included quite a bit of on-reserve information. We just thought that this time we needed a little bit different perspective. Also, the two post-census surveys—the aboriginal children's survey and the aboriginal peoples survey—were not yet conducted on reserve. But there's certainly lots of information from the census. We just didn't have the time here to present everything.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you. I noticed that some of the questions are very perception oriented--you ask how they feel about education or how they feel about their community--particularly with some of the populations you surveyed in the APS, generally, and in the children's survey.

I just want to go on to health for a second. When you talk about the prevalence of chronic disease among a couple of population sets, how big a factor is the lack of access in some population areas to screening, for instance, or health professionals? Does that get factored in at all?

If you just do the comparisons in Nunaat, the Inuit homeland area, and then decide to see how that compares with the rest of the Canadian population, what kinds of factors do you bring into play in determining that comparison?

Being from Labrador, I know that not only in Nunaat but in the government areas, throughout Labrador, there's a lack of access to health professionals and screening. I know thousands of people in Labrador who for various reasons just don't go to a doctor or a nurse at all. For some it's just that they can't afford to get to a health professional.

How is the comparison made? Is it a good comparison? Do you take those methodologies into play? How does that methodology work?

[Cathy Connors, Assistant Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada]

One of the things we do with the surveys is ask a number of different questions to try to get at some of those things. Along with asking questions about chronic conditions, we also ask questions about access to health care so that researchers can take those types of things into account when they're analyzing the data.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you. Your time is up.

Mr. Lemay, you have seven minutes.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Dockstator, I have to confess that I have one small problem. I do not understand the mandate of the First Nations Statistical Institute, the FNSI. Can you explain it to me again quickly? I do not want to spend the entire seven minutes on it. My feeling is that it is in competition with Statistics Canada. Does the FNSI have specific responsibilities vis-à-vis First Nations that Statistics Canada does not?

I am very worried by the fact that we have no figures. Ms. Badets gave us figures in June, but we do not know the real status of Aboriginal groups who live in communities or on-reserve. Do you intend to do a statistical study on the impact of the 2% ceiling. By that I mean that is not possible to devote more than 2% of the funds to First Nations. It is no good gathering statistics on First Nations' economic health; if they have no education, no work and are in poor health, it is no good at all.

I have to say that I am in two minds on this matter. I will let you respond and then I will ask Ms. Badets a question.

[Dr. Mark Dockstator]

Thank you. I'll answer specifically the mandate question first.

As a new organization, a newly formed crown corporation, the first task we looked at was to define what our mandate as a board would be. It is very clear in the legislation that our mandate has two parts to it. The first part we took as our initial priority was to assist the other three institutions that were created under the legislation--the First Nations Finance Authority, the First Nations Financial Management Board, and the First Nations Tax Commission. A number of first nations are, under the legislation, ready to go forward, working with all four of these institutions in order to have a bond issued at some point in the future. It is very important, if not imperative, that the First Nations Statistical Institute play a key role with those other three organizations and with those first nations who are signed up, under the legislation, to go forward.

So our immediate goal as an organization is to fulfill that part of our mandate, which is right in front of us, for those first nations who are ready to go, and the other three institutions who are working with those first nations, in order to proceed to the bond issue. As a board, we took that as a primary aspect of our mandate that, in the near future, as we develop as an organization, we would key our resources into.

This is keeping in mind that we do have an overlap between Statistics Canada and us with respect to the second component of our mandate, which is to look at first nations in a broader sense. Statistics Canada here is presenting that type of information. The field is somewhat occupied at this time. We took that as saying, well, that is the second part of our mandate that we will get to as we build our organization and as we support the other three institutions and those first nations, under the legislation, that are going forward. As a second part, we will work with Statistics Canada to ensure that when we get to that part of our mandate, there is no overlap; we're working in conjunction, one with the other.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Ms. Badets, I would like to know if you share the same understanding of the mandate that Mr. Dockstator has just described for us? The statistics that you are showing us today worry me a lot. Last June, I asked the following question and I think it was you I asked. Do you remember?

Am I to understand that, if I am telephoned, I can identify myself as Aboriginal or First Nations with no documentation needed?

[Jane Badets]

I do remember, very much, the discussion we had on that in June. However, I first want to answer a little bit with regard to FNSI and the role of FNSI with Statistics Canada.

In no way does Statistics Canada see FNSI as being an overlap of what we do. I think it will be very complementary. We are looking forward to FNSI becoming more operational. The need for statistics, as you can see, and the explanations--I'm probably going to hear a lot of questions from you, asking for more explanation and more data--is vast. We do need an organization like FNSI, which will bring a first nations perspective to the collection, analysis, and examination of data; add to the statistical capacity among first nations; and get information to them, to the communities, so that they can use it. That's critical. It's an important part of the national statistical system, which we will both be players in. I just wanted to respond in that sense.

In terms of your question on the Métis and on the questions we ask in a census, we've asked them for a number of years. We do extensive testing leading up, making sure that these questions do respond to the needs of our stakeholders or partners and data users, and communities themselves. Certainly many of the questions in the census are self-identification, self-enumeration questions. We rely on the goodwill of Canadians to respond.

In terms of Métis--and we do get this question, it's not a new one--there is no universally accepted definition of Métis. Even among the Métis organizations, there are different perspectives on who's Métis and who's not. But this is not unlike some of the other questions we ask, too, in the census.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Lemay.

Now we go to Ms. Crowder, for seven minutes.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for coming today.

I also want to start with FNSI.

I believe it's an important organization and I'm looking forward to the organization becoming more fully operational. I think when I get to my questions for Statistics Canada you'll see some of my concerns with how information is currently collected.

But in the Montreal Gazette on February 18 there was an article that talked about Ottawa pondering big asset sell-offs and some names raising eyebrows. Your organization is on a list of the possible crown corporations under review.

Have you been contacted about the fact that you may actually be on the chopping block?

[Dr. Mark Dockstator]

I take it the article is in reference to the budget?

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Yes.

[Dr. Mark Dockstator]

I read in the paper, like most people, the overarching details of the budget, but being a very small organization with limited staff, we don't have the resources to go into the budget. Nobody has contacted FNSI to say that we are under specific review, although that might be the case.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

I think it would be unfortunate, because I believe that with the mandate you're being provided, there will be an important lens, both on the information around economic development and data gathering to support the bond issue and in terms of the kind of information that is gathered with first nations.

Now, is your focus on reserve, or is it broader than that?

[Dr. Mark Dockstator]

Again, our mandate is very specific in the legislation. Although there is some flexibility in certain areas to go outside the reserve, our primary focus in our legislation is first nations reserve-based.