Evidence of meeting #5 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jane Badets  Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
Mark Dockstator  Chairman, First Nations Statistical Institute
Cathy Connors  Assistant Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

And of course we know that the data gathering on reserve has been problematic, which is where I want to turn to Statistics Canada for a minute.

In your presentation you talked about the fact that your focus has been on aboriginal identity, and that does raise a number of concerns. I wonder if you could talk specifically about why the focus has swung to aboriginal identity. This is a significant funding issue. There are two issues around it. One is that in June, when Mr. Guimond came before the committee, he talked about the fact that there was a difference in the information between Indian and Northern Affairs and Statistics Canada. He talked about the fact that using aboriginal identity can skew policy development and that the misinterpretation of urban population growth could result in the overemphasis of migration from Indian reserves to cities. I think there's significant concern that first nations on reserve will get lost in policy development if there is this notion that there's this large migration.

I wonder if you could talk about why we use aboriginal identity.

9:40 a.m.

Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Jane Badets

Well, as I said, we certainly do extensive consultations with our stakeholders on--

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

So who are those stakeholders?

9:40 a.m.

Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Jane Badets

They would be Indian and Northern Affairs, many federal departments, provincial governments, national aboriginal organizations, aboriginal communities, researchers.

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

Is there any group that you would say has the bigger stake in the stakeholder group? I'm hearing anecdotally from NAOs and from first nations on reserve that they don't feel they have been represented in the stakeholder discussion.

9:40 a.m.

Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Jane Badets

Well, we certainly go, and we certainly talk to them. We don't get to all reserves. That would be a difficult task to consult with everyone, but we do at the time of the census, when we decide to go on reserve.

Identity is not the only concept. What we do at Statistics Canada is provide the building blocks. We have those four questions. Identity is not the only one, but we do have ancestry, we have people who have reported as treaty or registered Indians as well as first nations band members.

Those are the building blocks we provide. Different organizations or different partners or stakeholders will decide to use the data as they feel necessary according to their program needs. And that's what our purpose is, to put that out so that they can use it.

We've just completed a number of regional discussions across the country, and people still do like the concept of identity. But what we do is make sure we provide all the information for all of those different concepts.

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

But on slide 4 you only provided ancestry and identity.

9:45 a.m.

Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Jane Badets

Yes. Given the historical nature, we wanted to show the historical growth of that population.

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

When you report out, then, you would report out as ancestry, identity, status....

9:45 a.m.

Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Jane Badets

Registered and band and first nations. If you go to our website, you would have all of that information, including from our surveys as well.

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

I think Mr. Lemay expressed this in the past. You're quite right that people can self-identify. When it comes to identity, any one of us here could self-identify as having aboriginal identity and yet not be aboriginal people in any way, shape, or form. I think part of the concern is that this information can be used to skew policy decisions.

9:45 a.m.

Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Jane Badets

Certainly. That could be for any of the questions to ancestry as well and registered Indian. It is self-enumeration and self-reporting on a census.

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

When I come to the registry, the registered first nations, INAC's registry says there are over 805,000. The census says, I believe, around 600,000. So in fact there is a discrepancy between INAC's registered numbers and what the census is reporting. That's a significant gap of 200,000. It does start to bring into question the validity of some of this information.

9:45 a.m.

Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Jane Badets

Those are two different data sources. One is administrative and one is census. Census provides you with a snapshot of the population on census day.

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

I do understand that, that one is administrative--

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

We're out of time.

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

Okay.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

Thank you very much. Now, we'll go to Mr. Rickford for seven minutes, please.

Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Welcome to our committee, to all our witnesses. I'm going to take the first part of the seven minutes for some questions for Statistics Canada, particularly around some of the health data that are contained in your presentation. Then I'll move to some questions for FNSI.

I should make the pre-emptive statement that I'm relieved that this government seems to be on the right track when we look at our accomplishments so far and what we propose in the economic plan. Our job, of course, is to shape policy around a qualitative analysis of the quantitative data that's here. Our priorities in the areas of education, training, housing, infrastructure, and maternal child health seem to be on the right track, but I want to make some sense of a few of these pages.

Some of it builds on Mr. Russell's line of thinking. If we go to page 14, we have what I would consider a fair degree of satisfaction, even if it is perception, with health facilities. Perhaps, Cathy, you could comment on where that satisfaction might come from. Does that include services? What does the word “facilities” mean, because 77% of the people surveyed there had a good or excellent or very good perception of the services in their community?

Before you answer that, I'm going to pull in pages 26, 27, and 28, because they round out our analysis with respect to a couple of interesting points in terms of health services for Inuit people and their degree of satisfaction. I think the statement could be made that the fact that we've identified increases in certain disease processes, particularly high blood pressure, which is more often a symptom of another disease process, means that access to services has to necessarily be improved in the communities because we're identifying more of those. Whether it's diagnostic or access to some kind of primary health care, there may in fact be an improvement and more comprehensive care. Do you have any data on the satisfaction about that care to the extent that it might be different on page 14 as the question is asked?

I ask these questions for some very specific reasons, obviously. I spent eight years working as a nurse in isolated communities across the Arctic and several provinces. I can say that the access to services, particularly around prenatal services, work-ups for diabetics or for even looking at diabetes, and the advancements we've made in a number of communities to getting things like telopthamology services, portable services in communities like Pikangikum, Kitchenuhmaykoosib Inninuwug, and Muskrat Dam, and KO Telemedicine has in fact improved the access to services in those communities. Quite frankly, as a nurse practising the extended role and for nurse practitioners, which I know is a growing profession in those communities, there is increased access to services, and these support it, although it may not be obvious.

I'm sorry for that rather lengthy question. It may only require a short response. Could you comment on that?

9:50 a.m.

Assistant Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Cathy Connors

Sure. I'll start by addressing your question about slide 14 and what is a health facility.

Basically, this question was asked to better understand how parents feel about their community or neighbourhood as a place to raise young children. So this is for children under the age of six. Here the question was just asked in terms of health facilities. We didn't specify what that was. It was left up to the respondents to decide what they would consider a health facility to be.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON

Obviously, those parents would be preoccupied with a couple of specific services: the maternal child health spectrum, immunization, identification of ear infections, asthma, etc.?

9:50 a.m.

Assistant Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Cathy Connors

Exactly.

In terms of access to health services, we do have a few questions we ask about that. We ask whether there's been a time where people have not received health care in the past year when they needed it. There's also a question for the children's survey, whether the child has seen a doctor or a medical professional in the past year. So there is information like that available.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON

On page 26, the question is “excellent or very good self-rated health”. Is that just a healthy person with no known conditions? Can that go further to say that I'm a diabetic and the status of my non-insulin-dependent diabetes is actually quite good because of the access to services I have in my community, for example? Does it drill down and try to explore that?

What is excellent or very good health? I have good health as a new MP, but it could be better, because the lifestyle is chaotic. It's a very subjective question.

9:50 a.m.

Assistant Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Cathy Connors

Exactly, and that really is what the question is. How do people perceive their own health? But we have found that this particular question is really quite accurate in addressing--

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON

The general health status, whether you have a condition or not.