Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 26th, 2009

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Well, I can tell you that every piece of correspondence that I've received from every chief and aboriginal leader in Inuit organizations to date has soundly rejected that type of approach, and in fact, most of the evidence speaks to the fact that since the first nations have taken over control of their schools, the results have been better. The direct involvement in the delivery of educational programs, whether at the secondary or post-secondary school level, is much better than what it is in provincial school systems or by other third parties.

I'd recommend that you consult much more when it comes to the transfer of that particular program, or any type of change you're going to make to the arrangement of the delivery of it.

[Neil Yeates]

Thank you for that.

I should be clear, I'm talking about post-secondary. I'm not talking kindergarten to grade 12.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Oh, I know you're talking about post-secondary, but the fact is that it's a part of the whole educational spectrum that we talk about, and the first nations, the Inuit organizations, those who have control over that program now want to maintain some control over it. I believe their concerns are well-founded and that there is some real action taking place that would take that out of the first nations and Inuit organizations' administrative control. Is that right?

[Neil Yeates]

Yes, that is one of the options. I should say that I think there are trade-offs between the type of delivery regime that we have and principles around the program about equity and dealing with students who have the greatest needs. Those may vary quite a bit from one community to another.

The delivery regime that we have does affect the type of program you can deliver. We feel that it needs to be examined.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay. You're finished there, Mr. Russell.

Mr. Lemay, you have seven minutes.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you for being here today.

I have several questions, and I would like to go through them quickly. Can you tell me, once again, how many students received funding for post-secondary education over the last year?

[Neil Yeates]

Yes, certainly. Twenty-two thousand.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Twenty-two thousand?

[Neil Yeates]

Yes.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

And how many millions of dollars does that represent?

[Neil Yeates]

Three hundred and fourteen.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

So, 22,000 students received some $314 million in funding. Is that correct?

[Neil Yeates]

Just to be clear, $22 million of the $314 million was for our support to educational institutions. So you'd have to take the $22 million off the $314 million to approximately get the amount that went to students.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I wanted to be sure of that. I wanted precise numbers. So, we have to subtract $22 million, which means that there is less money going directly to students than in 1999, when 27,000 students were receiving money under the program. Now, there are only 22,000. So, rather than going up, the number of students pursuing post-secondary education is actually going down. Is that correct?

[Neil Yeates]

Yes, it is.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Yeates, we tabled a report two years ago. Have you read it?

[Neil Yeates]

Yes.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Fine. There are a lot of new members on the Committee, Mr. Chairman, including yourself, and I invite all of you to read the report. It contained 10 recommendations. Of those 10 recommendations, can you tell me how many have been acted on by the Department over the last two years?

[Neil Yeates]

Well, we can take you through that, certainly. Maybe we can just do that fairly quickly and then provide more detail if you would like.

There was a series of recommendations around improving information available on the web, and we've done a fair bit of work there between ourselves, in terms of the department website, and HRSDC. There is the CanLearn website, which collects a lot of this information. There's also the Aboriginal Canada Portal, which is an across-government website that provides very good access to the whole array of information on post-secondary programs. So we've actually done a fair bit of work on that.

There was also a recommendation on the 2% cap. I think we've talked about that. That remains a challenge for us.

Another one, recommendation three, deals with increasing the budget for post-secondary to reflect increased needs, and as you know, we've basically been dealing with the 2% cap since that period of time.

There was also a recommendation on looking at the number of first nation and Inuit learners who might be eligible. We don't have that kind of very detailed information. Various numbers have been raised there, so we've not really made much progress on that.

In terms of data collection overall, you had a series of recommendations on data collection, and we are pleased to report some progress there. We have recently obtained some funding to develop a data system for education and post-secondary education, which we are confident is going to provide a lot better information right across the board on data.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You may recall that when you appeared before the Committee, I asked you a question which I am going to ask you once again. Is it not true that the $305 million set aside for post-secondary education is part of a discretionary program which the minister or the government can terminate at any time? Is the answer still the same—in other words, yes?

[Neil Yeates]

Yes, that remains the view. It has been the view for a long time.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I understand. Whether it is the Liberals or the Conservatives in office, the program continues to be discretionary. The Committee should consider asking that this be an established program, but I understand your point. What I am very interested in, however, is the fact that you had until 2008 to review it. You said that a study was underway and, in response to a question by a colleague, you stated that the study would be released within the next 30 days. But does that study consider the possibility that the program may disappear overnight, or do you simply assume that the $305 million will always be there?

[Neil Yeates]

We're assuming the program will continue. This is a core program for INAC, so we don't see that as a possibility. Our interest is in trying to sort out how better to improve access and how to make the best use of whatever sum of money we have available to us.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I don't want to tell any tales out of school, as long as the report has not been released, but you are investing $22 million to assist post-secondary institutions. What are the $22 million being used for in terms of assisting institutions?

[Neil Yeates]

Maybe I'll ask Madam Cram to speak to the details of that, but it's basically to fund programs specifically for aboriginal students.

Ms. Cram.