Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 10th, 2009

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, I had asked that we start preparing for the appearance of representatives of the Assembly of First Nations to discuss education. Once we have completed our study of Bill C-5, and before undertaking our study of Bill C-8, I think it would be a good idea to do that. The Assembly of First Nations has written to us on several occasions. The First Nations Education Steering Committee would like to meet with us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Mr. Bagnell.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have just an overall comment on what we study. This is the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development. I've been on this committee for years, and I don't remember ever having an agenda item, or at least not very many, on northern development.

Just as a general comment, then, I'm hoping that one of our chosen study items could be related to the north.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We're actually starting to get into that discussion now.

I was really seeking from the committee whether you want to have that discussion now and set a study topic. We do have, by the way, and I think you've all had circulated to you, the preferences of members with respect to their priorities and ideas, including those just mentioned.

We will need to schedule some time to have that discussion. It would appear at this stage that we won't be able to do that before the break. That does leave us the option, if you wish, to continue with a briefing-type meeting. There were still a couple of briefing topics that we had not completely dispensed with prior to our taking up consideration of Bill C-5. We could go in that direction, if you wish.

Ms. Crowder.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Do we have a list? I know that it was circulated by e-mail.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

It has been circulated.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Yes, but do we have a list here today?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We do.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

It would be great if I could see it. I didn't bring my copy with me.

I do have a couple of points around the study. I submitted an extensive list, but I would like to speak strongly on two items.

The first one is that we continue the economic development study that we started last June. There was a motion, which the committee had accepted. I believe, in light of the conference being held in Toronto this week that's talking about business and economic development--the Assembly of First Nations and business leaders are in Toronto--there were some very interesting first nations identified as key success stories. I think part of what we had talked about was the fact that the committee would not only hear witnesses but also take the committee to some communities. This committee, in the years that I've been on it, has only gone out once.

In terms of the economic development, I think education links into that and northern development links into that. I think there's an opportunity for us to fully support an economic development study.

In addition, with regard to what Mr. Bagnell said about northern development, there's the Neil McCrank report. If nothing else, we could at least take a look at that report and have some witnesses on that report. That would start to inform us about northern issues.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay, thank you, Ms. Crowder.

We do have to go to Mr. Duncan and then Monsieur Bélanger.

Mr. Duncan.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I did notice that three of the four parties all have items on the north, from Mr. Bagnell on Arctic sovereignty, from Ms. Crowder on northern economic development, and from the Conservatives on strategic investments in northern economic development. Ms. Crowder is correct in talking about the McCrank report as being very significant in terms of northern issues as well, so I think we have fairly good consensus, although the two items submitted by Monsieur Lemay do not include the north. I think his item regarding Maniwaki might be something we could look at. That looks like a fairly focused item that would not take a lot of committee time.

I wouldn't mind some clarification from Monsieur Lemay as to what Maniwaki means. Are you talking about Kitigan Zibi, are you talking about Lac Barrière, or are you talking about something else?

That's where we have a consensus, in a sense. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll come to that.

We're going to go now to Monsieur Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Two things, Mr. Chairman. First, I was listening to a radio report yesterday that there was apparently in Toronto a significant conference yesterday on the economic development of first nations. I'm just wondering why the committee was not made aware of that or perhaps even afforded an opportunity to participate. It's just a question I was wondering about. Perhaps we could obtain a report from that conference and its conclusions, if there are any.

Secondly, I'm just reminded of what we're doing here today, Mr. Chairman. I remember studying or being advised of a couple of principles that were important in human endeavours: one was the Peter Principle, that you'd be promoted to your level of incompetence; and the other one, whose name I forget, was that work would expand to occupy the time available. I wonder if that's what we're proving here today, the existence of that other principle.

I'd be willing to punt this to Thursday, after we've finished with Bill C-5.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay, thank you.

You have the floor, Mr. Lemay.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I have two things to say. Firstly, in response to Mr. Bélanger's question, we did in fact receive an invitation to attend the First Nations Economic Development Conference. However, since Parliament was sitting, my whip did not give us permission to attend. There are some votes scheduled and therefore, we need to be here.

Secondly, to answer Mr. Duncan's question, I suggested that the committee visit Maniwaki because this would be an extension of our study on economic development. Few of you may remember this, but around May or June of last year, we began our study of First Nations economic development. Our first order of business was a trip to Iqaluit and to Pagnirtung. Had Parliament not suddenly been dissolved and elections called, we would have picked up and continued this study when the session resumed. Unfortunately, that was not to be. I'm suggesting we visit Maniwaki as part of our study on the economic development of First Nations.

It is critically important, to my mind, that we meet with First Nations to talk about education, which is a priority of theirs. I suggested that we visit Maniwaki, not only as part of our study on the economic development of First Nations, but also to meet with the elected Grand Chief of Maniwaki, Mr. Whiteduck, and with the Chair of the First Nations Education Steering Committee. This visit would accomplish three things all at once.

Thirdly, I agree with what Mr. Bagnell was saying. I believe the North is poised to experience incredible economic development. This is something we need to look at because any development that is undertaken should respect the wishes of First Nations, and especially of the Inuit. I'm not sure that we can turn our attention to this matter during the coming session.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you.

Mr. Rickford please.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I'm disappointed we didn't get a chance to attend that conference. I found out about it last week, and I apologize to my caucus and the committee for not being aware of it. I just heard about it through the AFN. I would have assumed other people at the committee here would have heard from a similar route. It was a very important conference. My schedule didn't allow me to get to a couple of events in particular that I wanted to attend.

The second point I want to make is I share the consensus that northern economic development is probably a great direction for us to go in terms of a study. I just want to point out to the committee that we'll have to work hard at defining what we're saying when we talk about the north, because sometimes the documents seem to talk exclusively about the Arctic Circle, specifically the subarctic regions as well. My riding, for example, goes all the way up to the coast of Hudson Bay, and certainly when it comes to polar bear studies, etc., we're included in some northern development in studies in those regards. Then we have southern communities that are still quite north and very isolated, but well into the provinces. So when we start to talk about some of the other issues I was interested in, like procurement strategies and stuff for aboriginal businesses, it is a north to south and south to north kind of discussion. I just want to make it clear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Rickford.

Ms. Crowder please.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

It seems to me if we have general agreement--I disagree with Mr. Bélanger, I don't think we're so-called ragging the puck here--I think this is an opportunity for us to provide some guidance to the analysts about where we might want to go so they can start that process. One of the things many of us have asked for in the past is if we're going to go ahead and do a study we want to know what previous reports have been done, what recommendations were made, what items were acted on, what words, and why not. So work could start tomorrow.

I fully support us looking at economic development, but I would like to see it expanded outside the north. I think it should be northern economic development and economic development throughout the country. I think in terms of framing what we would want to look at, what we would want to look at again is what works, what hasn't worked, and what supports need to be in place to support constructive results-based economic development in communities in the north and across Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

That's what we're going to do. We're going to have that discussion. I think we'll have that discussion in terms of providing some scope for that work ahead of us on the Thursday following the break. We have at least three days in front of us now, with a full day on Thursday, as discussed. We have the clause-by-clause for Bill C-5 on March 24 and we will set aside March 26 for consideration of providing some clarity on our next steps in terms of study topics. There being no other speakers, I think we will proceed on that basis.

Mr. Bagnell.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Just for clarification, are you now directing the researchers to start proceeding on that topic?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Not yet. It would appear to me that this committee still needs to provide some scope in terms of direction. Certainly there was some general interest in proceeding along the lines of economic development topics, as members put forward, but we need to provide some boundaries and some scope for that study if in fact that's how we proceed.

We'll have that discussion on Thursday, March 26. Just to be clear, we won't schedule witnesses for that day.

If there's consensus, that's how we will proceed. D'accord?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The meeting is adjourned.