Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 25th, 2010

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Would the same hold true for the need for warehouse capacity? Could you see the private sector getting involved in building warehouse capacity? We certainly heard while we were in the north, in Nunavut especially, about the need for some kind of facility in that regard.

[Tim Zehr]

To that I'd say, absolutely. You can find examples of that. You have certainly the competitive need throughout southern Canada, whether it's cold storage warehouse facilities or just warehousing in general, distribution centres that are built up all throughout the south. This is something that would help address a lot of the high-cost need of transportation of goods throughout the north, whether it be by air or sea.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

We had several references to the building code. I totally understand how the national code might not fit the north, because it didn't fit British Columbia either. Guess what? We have leaky condos, and it cost a lot of money.

You mentioned fuel measurement. What other codes are out there that you can name that would be specifically advantageous to be developed with national terms of reference? Are there other examples that come to mind?

The question is open to anybody.

[Jacques Plante]

One very simple code is the fire code. In our facility, we have people trying to apply the southern standard of fire prevention, which is quite difficult to apply in an isolated community. I'm not saying it's not required. I'm just saying that it needs to be taken into account. At one of our sites we had a fire truck with 10,000 litres of water and that's it.

So we do take other precautions. We understand. We want to preserve life and limb and property and everything else. But we do get comments without people realizing what it's all about. Obviously all of the things to deal with the POL infrastructure are quite complex and touch multiple departments. Environment and other departments get involved, so it becomes a little bit difficult for us to handle.

I just want to make a small comment.

When Ms. Crowder talks about the Auditor General's report and some of the licensing and inspections, the Nunavut Water Board, which has been in existence for only a few years, has certainly made a lot of effort to deal with some of the issues involved in the proper handling of various products, and we have worked closely with them in some applications. But in some aspects, they are the regulatory side. The inspection side falls within INAC and Environment Canada. The duplication and the complexity of dealing with these various parts make it a challenge.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Duncan.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

I have a point of order. Could we give our translators a three- or four-minute break from that hot room down there?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I'm happy to do that, if it's the wish of the committee that we take a brief break. We have four questions remaining.

Are we okay? Are we good to go?

We will be taking a brief suspension of the meeting when we're finished with rounds of questions here, before we go into our brief segment on committee business. So we'll give you a brief reprieve at that time. Good for you for hanging in there today.

Is it Mr. Lemay's turn now or Mr. Lévesque's?

All right, it will be Mr. Lemay, then Mr. Payne and Ms. Crowder.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Gentlemen, I am pleased to hear from you. I will probably address our clerks and analysts, because I get the impression that, by undertaking a study like this, we did not know what we were getting into. I think the first 24 pages of the briefing notes should simply have a glossary, an index of who does what.

For example, Pan Arctic Inuit Logistics Inc. is owned and controlled by Inuit from the four land claim regions, Nunavut, Inuvialuit, and so on, and Pan Arctic's seven shareholders... There is a lot of that!

Do you know who is in charge of what and, above all, are you able to control who does what? It seems there are a lot of people suddenly interested in what is happening in the north, and, as a member of Parliament, I ask myself a serious question. Who does what and do you have any control over who does what? Good luck!

[Tony Butler]

I'll take a shot. Depending on the term “control”, I think there is some confusion. For example, among the departments that can affect decisions on development in the north, you have INAC--

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Slowly. Could you repeat that? It is important. We are taking notes. INAC is Indian and Northern Affairs Canada.

[Tony Butler]

Yes. There's ACOA, the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, for Labrador, and you have CanNor, the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

It is the new agency.

[Tony Butler]

Yes. And you have Industry Canada, which has a hand in some of the national projects. So there are a number of different departments.

As Jacques alluded to, when you're dealing with some of the environmental issues, we deal with the Nunavut Water Board, but INAC is responsible because that's the way the original agreements were written up. When we're dealing with certain regulations, you're dealing with Quebec, Newfoundland and Labrador, and then you're getting into the western territories, and then of course the federal government.

So the north is unique. I don't think of the north as to the left of Hudson's Bay; I think of it as from Labrador to--

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

One question interests me and I am going to put it to you directly. We are talking about northern development and so on. You have the unique opportunity to be here and ask us if we can reduce this, that and the other. What can we do?

[Tony Butler]

Yikes!

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

It is difficult to answer, isn't it?

[Tony Butler]

I have little idea. I think we forget that our strong interest in the north is short-lived. It's recent. So I think there is some confusion that's occurring because of that. In the past there hasn't been that much interest in what was going on. So a lot of this bumbled along. I think some of the efforts of the committee and others are to perhaps rationalize for us, because we struggle to rationalize for us, who is responsible for development in the north and what is the north.

As I say, because I represent the pan-Arctic, Labrador is as much the north to me as Nunavut. Nunatsiavut in northern Labrador is the north to me as well. I think we run a risk of looking at just the western half without considering the full scope. It's complicated.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I agree that Canada is ungovernable.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Lemay.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Already?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Yes, absolutely.

Mr. Payne, you now have five minutes.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to welcome all the witnesses here today. You make very interesting comments. Certainly, my questions are to you through the chair.

I did find some interesting things in terms of education. I think everyone talked about education. You talked about the need for an Arctic university and you talked about potentially a trade school for the north, because of all of the individuals who need training. If I were to say you could have the money for a university and a trade school, where would you put them?

[Tim Zehr]

There would have to be further discussion on that, believe me. It's an interesting question.

But specific to Nunavut itself, there are three very distinct regions. Certainly, right there, all three of them would be all over that in a heartbeat. There would have to be a fair way to do it without having it drag on for years. If the commitment were there to do it, I think the people of the north would certainly find a way to resolve that question.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

The north, obviously, goes from one side of the country to the other, so I see that as a major problem. I'm not sure how you'd get around some of the travel issues you talked about earlier.

Secondly, I don't know if anyone has done any studies in terms of the number of students who would potentially be there each and every year. Also, where would you find the professors, the instructors? Would they be from the north or from the south?