Evidence of meeting #18 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nunavut.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
We have a bill right now to reduce the number of pardons; that's not going to help much.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
Okay.
Two of you, Mr. Plante and Mr. Zehr, talked about educational infrastructure and training. What more do you need to get the students through math and science? There are schools there.
President and Chief Operating Officer, Nunasi Corporation
I talked a bit about the issue of young mothers, for example, having to leave school. There are kids having kids in the north. More specifically, if you go to a community such as Arviat, there's a real issue. There are a lot of young kids having babies and having to leave school. We have to find ways to allow them back in to finish their education. I see that as one of the biggest challenges we have.
The other thing is, as I mentioned, an Arctic university. There is certainly a need for that, but also, I've attended some of the mayors' conferences throughout some of the hamlets, and when you talk to them, there's frustration because they always have to send their people out somewhere to get education. There is not enough based within the communities themselves. Anything that can be done to help improve further education would be a big step for us.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Thank you.
I now invite Mr. Lévesque to take the floor.
You have seven minutes.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome, gentlemen.
Mr. Page, you have quite an impressive track record. You have probably studied the environment a lot, but you have also probably taught about it a lot in the west.
You are certainly able to answer my question. Do territorial governments have enough power and tools to make the appropriate studies and recommendations?
I am asking this because there are people who have always lived in the territories and had to adapt their lifestyles to ice conditions and the seasons.
Do territorial governments have enough workers, financial resources and power to make the necessary recommendations to get things done in the Northwest Territories, Nunavik, Nunavut and Yukon?
Chair, National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy
That's a really good question, one that comes back to a couple of the points I tried to make in my presentation.
Too much of the work on arctic climate change and adaptation is not focused at the community level, so it's very difficult for territorial governments and for first nations to properly appreciate what is going on. Much of the modelling that has been done is way up at about 17,000 feet, and what we're trying to deal with is right at the community level. So a great deal of the research...
The authority question is a little different one.
To my knowledge, right now we have people like the chairman of the National Energy Board spending a good deal of time in the north trying to understand better the issues there. I'm very aware of the efforts to try to work with the three levels of government—federal, territorial, and first nation—in connection with it.
It's a unique system of government that we have evolved here in Canada to try to develop this. Is it working fully and properly today? I don't think it is. That's why in my presentation I talk about further integration.
Are the resources there today that are necessary to do the kind of work we're talking about in terms of these risks? I don't think they are. As Canada begins to take a greater interest in the north, whether in defence, economic development, or sovereignty in circumpolar questions, I think we as Canadians have to invest in a lot of this to a higher degree than we're doing today.
Please understand that when I'm talking about this I'm including the provincial north, not just what I'm doing in the federal north. I'm very aware, for instance, of the very important work that has been done by some of my friends in Quebec in connection with these northern questions.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Thank you, sir.
Mr. Zehr, I think you mentioned an Arctic university. I think that is what you called it. I remember a time when the First Nations University of Canada in Saskatchewan was the only university for all of Canada. We managed to get a university building for eastern Canada and, instead of calling it the First Nations Pavilion, we called it the First Peoples Pavilion. The university's intention was to serve all of eastern Canada. First Nations from Newfoundland, Labrador, Nova Scotia and all of eastern Canada were encouraged to have their students enroll there. In addition, the Université du Québec is ready to offer its courses by satellite in the various territories.
You are talking about training qualified workers and staff. Would it not be more appropriate to establish a vocational school now, as CanNor suggested in its report? There is supposedly a budget for vocational training.
President and Chief Operating Officer, Nunasi Corporation
Thank you for that.
Absolutely, a trade school would go a long way to help as well. I believe there needs to be far more diversity than just trades. I have to give a lot of credit to a lot of industry that's coming to the north. They are doing a lot to train Inuit through apprenticeship programs. The Meadowbank gold mine site has over 140 Inuit working on site, and they're not just pushing brooms; they're doing significant jobs, running heavy equipment.
However, there are other areas throughout the north where to even find accountants and so on is very lacking. Many businesses will do their books in the south because they can't find skilled people to do it in the north. So it needs to be much more diverse than just trades.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
When you need qualified staff for courses and training, is there accommodation for those people in most places where instruction is required? Is there adequate housing to allow them to live near the place where they are teaching?
President and Chief Operating Officer, Nunasi Corporation
The quick answer would be no. There's certainly a lack of housing, another issue I touched on earlier. The great thing about the people I know in the north is that they find accommodation through the people who are living there. Many times they're living with someone.
Bloc
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Merci, monsieur Lévesque.
Now let's go to Ms. Crowder for seven minutes. Go ahead, Ms. Crowder.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the witnesses for coming before the committee.
I want to start off with Mr. Page. Although I know people are talking about Nunavut largely, I know, Mr. Page, that you've looked more broadly at the north.
I want to refer to the Auditor General's report from spring 2010. In that report she indicated that Indian and Northern Affairs Canada and Environment Canada had not met their responsibilities to monitor the cumulative impact of development and the various pollutants on the fragile environment of the Northwest Territories. I wonder if you could comment on whether that's also the case in Nunavut.
Chair, National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy
First of all, I think my colleagues on the panel here are a little more expert on the Nunavut situation. I've certainly visited Nunavut.
In terms of our report, we were looking at the infrastructure issues; we were not looking at the levels of pollutants in the north, which certainly exist. I'm not trying to suggest that, but your question requires someone who has done detailed work in terms of trying to look at it. I'm certainly aware of some of the residual elements of mining in other parts of the north. I'm not so familiar with Nunavut, so I'm hesitant to answer that question particularly.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Are you aware of any broad-ranging studies that are looking at that?
Chair, National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy
In Nunavut?
Chair, National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy
More broadly in the Northwest Territories, yes. And of course we've seen some of the mining residues of arsenic and others in the Yellowknife area, and we've seen a variety of others. To my knowledge, more work has certainly been done on the western Arctic than there has been on Nunavut in connection with it. Once again, I'm happy to be corrected by some of my friends on the panel here.
I think this is a particularly serious issue, because with mining companies, in many cases, what you have is a situation in which, after the mine is closed, the corporate facility, the corporate entity, may be bankrupt and there would be no party other than government to attempt to go in to look at some of that cleanup. But that's just a general question...that's not replying specifically to yours. I was just trying to suggest to you the seriousness of this issue in terms of ensuring cleanup.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
More broadly, I think you and others as well have pointed out that the environment up there is so different from the south that you can't assume... The garbage dump outside of Iqaluit is a really good example.
Chair, National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy
That's right.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
So you can't just assume that you can treat everything the way you do in the south.
Chair, National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy
Well, that's true, but the issue is the separation between some of the chemical processes and some of the biological processes that we're dealing with here. Certainly in terms of trying to deal with the biological processes, as I tried to say in my opening comments, you see significant differences in both the difficulty and the cost involved for northerners. When I say northerners here, I mean northern companies, northern peoples, and northern governments.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Great. Thank you, Mr. Page.
I want to turn to the other panellists, and anyone can answer this. I want to touch on education because a number of you raised it.
I know this report was dealing with the Northwest Territories, but I can't believe that the conditions are substantially dissimilar. In the Auditor General's report, she pointed out some challenges with Human Resources and Skills Development Canada. What she recommended was that HRSDC
...should work with Aboriginal groups and the Government of the Northwest Territories to assess the impact of their Aboriginal skills training programs and ensure that they're leading to improvements in the skills and employment prospects of the Aboriginal peoples over time.
A number of you have raised concerns with the availability of skilled people from Nunavut. I'm sure you're probably well aware of Justice Berger's report from a few years ago—I think it was 2005—that raised some serious concerns with the K to 12 system in Nunavut in terms of just the number of graduates. Of course, if you're not graduating from grade 12, it's highly unlikely you're going to end up going to technical school or university.
I wonder if you've had any experience in working with HRSDC programs and whether you see them as being effective or whether they need to do more of them or less of them, because those are often targeted towards specific skills and job-related training.
President, Nasittuq Corporation
I can talk from personal experience at Nasittuq.
First of all, one of the things we've done at the high school level is develop a very simple program of offering scholarships, assisting education, very practical types of things. We've also participated in supporting the junior ranger program and cadet corps to encourage youth to get involved and have an activity that would broaden their overall life experience. That in itself can help. There's still the need for higher concentration on the science side of education. There are a number of programs that seem to minimize the importance of math and science. When you try to get into the more technical trades, these are basic skills that are required but are lacking. We've had a number of jobs where we've had four, five, or six applicants that we went through, but they were unsuitable.
This is a program on which we are willing to spend over $100,000 to get the individual into heavy equipment operator training or chef training, practical jobs that are in the market. We are struggling to get the right candidate to apply, so anything done at the local level to get each individual child treated specifically...
Here's a very simple thing. In Cambridge Bay or Hall Beach, they have a Breakfast for Children program at school. Children go to school without having had breakfast. They're not very good students when they haven't had breakfast. So it's not a lot of money, but money in the right place would certainly help improve education, and it might also motivate the kid to go to school longer, which is a big issue.