Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 3rd, 2010

[Keith Martell]

I can go first.

I think education is the number one priority. If we look at the customers we have who are successful, it's because they're being driven by people from the region who live there, understand the needs and wants of the communities they work for, and are capable of delivering the results. You get that from educated people. We're lucky enough, in many of our customers and shareholder groups, to have people who have, for various reasons, gained that capacity. But there are many others who have a great opportunity that they're not taking advantage of because of the lack of education in the north.

I think education pays off. I'm a chartered accountant, and if I do the pay-back on any of these things, I think education has the highest pay-back.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Monsieur Rhéaume.

[Gilles Rhéaume]

I agree with Mr. Martell. Education is the most important aspect from that perspective.

But we must remember something. We cannot have schools in all the existing communities. That said, we now have electronic tools that allow us to develop skills through the Internet. I believe there is a gap in that area because of lack of investment in this infrastructure. That could help many northern communities to have access to education, which is essential.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Mr. Morrison, do you want to chime in on that as well? Do you have anything further to add?

[David Morrison]

I agree with the comments. I just think you have to look at the dollars required for infrastructure, which can't wait until we have an educated population or an improvement in the education of the population. I think there are different regions that can benefit more from those comments related to education. But we need to be able to provide infrastructure dollars that can help communities put this infrastructure into the ground, so when we look at development we're not spending money on diesel generation and things like that, which are just losing causes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Ms. Neville.

Mr. Lévesque, you now have three minutes.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, gentlemen.

I would like to take this opportunity to recognize Mr. Namagoose. He is a personal friend and anyone would be lucky to know him. He is a very important and dynamic man. I must also congratulate the Cree Nation that worked together with elected representatives in Quebec to obtain a university building where they can learn in their language and culture.

The Cree used their leadership skills and obtained investment from banks. Mr. Martell, you are certainly up to date on the matter. Could you tell us where the First Nations have invested and in what areas of the economy of their environment they are involved in?

Could you also tell us if there has been specific training in administration so far? We know they have a lot of lawyers, but what about business administration in particular? They will need vocational schools. What are the Cree investing in right now? We know there are investments. Where do they go for training at the moment?

[Keith Martell]

Well, you're right. They have a significant advantage because of the opportunities they've taken with the development of hydro in the settlements in their region. Often we take people from the south who have never been to first nations--they've heard all the details about poor first nations communities, poor infrastructure, poor education, and all the rest of it--and when we've gone to Cree communities, they've said that every street is paved, every house is new, every driveway has a vehicle, people are working, and what is the situation here? Well, it's the results of what the Cree have done in focusing on education, developing the infrastructure around the wealth they have built, and then making sure there is the capacity from their people to participate in it.

So you're right. It's a great example of what can be done if you create an economy and the wealth behind it to be able to drive that economy.

With respect to the professional development, the finance side of professional development is one of the most underdeveloped sides. We have a difficult time getting senior people at our bank from the aboriginal community because we have very few individuals with a Bachelor of Commerce who are financially trained.

I talked to Mr. Duncan earlier about the Aboriginal Financial Officers Association. It's a national organization that has done a tremendous job in putting more capacity into the hands of finance managers in communities and a great job in creating a national professional network of financial managers from first nations communities. When they take part in that, it really helps.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Lévesque and Mr. Martell.

Ms. Crowder now has the floor.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

I'll keep it brief. I have two quick questions. One is to Mr. Martell.

You mentioned you thought it was important to have a change in the government approach to economic development, and you specifically talked about nation building.

Can you be more specific about what needs to happen around that approach to economic development?

[Keith Martell]

This is a directive we give to most first nations clients. We look for clients who portray the characteristics of effective government.

It's not really that surprising. It's about stable institutions and policies of government so that a business like ours knows what the rules are when we go in to do business there.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

But what is it that the federal government can do to contribute to that?

[Keith Martell]

It can first of all assist local northern governments, whether they be aboriginal or territorial governments, in creating that kind of environment.

Frankly, I think the federal government can also take a look at that approach when it comes to economic development. Besides putting money into business start-ups, sometimes it's about doing things like creating an opportunity for there to be a fire marshal in Nunavut when I need to open a branch. That's about creating an environment where economic development can be done.

I know it's not starting a business. It's not putting dollars into a business development, but it's creating an environment where business development is possible. I think there are enough economic opportunities in the north that business will go there and it will develop, if the infrastructure is there to support business development.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Quickly, to Mr. Morrison, are you seeing any impact of climate change around your ability to produce hydro power?

[David Morrison]

We're not necessarily seeing that, but we'd need to see it over a period of time. Anecdotally, this is a very dry year in the north. There are a lot of forest fires. We haven't as yet had our reservoirs replenished, but next year could be really wet. It rained all day today, so maybe that's a sign,

Our view on climate change is that we should, as a utility, take the role that we're not going to impact it any further. We're going to stay away from greenhouse gas emissions and stay renewable, and we'll try to track over a period of time whether there are further impacts in terms of watersheds.

You can't do it by observing one year. You need multiple years of review.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Ms. Crowder.

Let's go to Mr. Duncan.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you very much, Chair. I see we have almost 18 minutes left, so we're in decent shape.

My first question is for Mr. Morrison.

You talked about how the economic action plan had been quite helpful in terms of satisfying your needs over the next several years, but you have a 20-year plan and you know, to meet your growth, you'll have to expand your capacities quite significantly.

I wonder if you can give us a sense of priority. What does that 20-year plan require? What would be your priority for federal assistance there? Does that include connection to either the Alaskan grid or the North American grid through British Columbia and the new extension to Bob Quinn Lake?

[David Morrison]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me say a couple of things. Because we're still in the development phase with a number of new projects, we haven't quantified the amount of federal assistance we'd like to see. But I think the point I'd like to make is that we won't be able to build significant new renewable infrastructure without significant federal assistance, because we won't be able to get it at the territorial level or from our customers.

In terms of connection to the other grids, there isn't a grid in Alaska that I'm aware of that can give us the capacity we need. We'd certainly love to be able to connect to the B.C. grid at Bob Quinn Lake, especially when the transmission line extension is completed by BCTC. But we're talking about a huge amount of money. That's probably a connection in the cost range of a couple of billion dollars.

Yes, I think over time it's going to cost a significant amount of money to help the north put the electrical infrastructure in place that it needs, but I'm not sure that the one solution that's there with that much cost to it is the one we should be going at. We'd certainly be happy to look at it with the federal government.

If we can find geothermal resources, if we can really bring this waste-to-energy piece together, that's going to help a large amount. The big issue is that we're also talking about a resource industry that's cyclical, and we can't afford to build too much either. We can't afford to build infrastructure where, after resource industries dip or there's an economic slowdown, we're left to pay for resources that...

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Morrison.

Committee, before we adjourn, are there any more questions from members? If there are more questions, we'd be glad to come back. If there are none, though, there's no reason that we can't let the witnesses go, because it will be about 30 minutes by the time we all get back here.

Is there a consensus to adjourn?

[Some hon. members]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay.

Don't leave yet. I want to properly thank each of the contributors here this afternoon. I apologize that we've been somewhat interrupted in what would have been our normal meeting.

Members, we're meeting back in here on Tuesday afternoon. Madam Crowder will be chairing that meeting. So we'll see you on Tuesday, and if we don't see you before, have a wonderful weekend.

Thank you. The meeting is adjourned.