Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 8th, 2010

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

So at the earlier stages of the process, when the mine proposal is being developed, that's where there needs to be more involvement from the Inuit. I agree that it's different from what we're talking about with the Takla, but this report is recommending that early involvement is absolutely critical in order to develop the plan for how Inuit or first nations would be involved.

[John Stevenson]

I agree with that. That's true.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Okay.

Mr. Connell, I don't have much time, but I want to come back to the training part. You acknowledge that training is critical. This report, of course, goes on to talk about how essential training is. It's great to hear that a training society for entry-level jobs has been developed, but the reality is that unless people work in the area of kindergarten to grade 12, the students aren't going to be turned out in order to take advantage of apprenticeship opportunities, or technical.

Is your company doing any work with the Nunavut government around kindergarten to grade 12, around any support or encouragement? We've seen the very high dropout rates.

[Lawrence Connell]

Yes.

We don't want to step in and take over government's role—

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Absolutely not.

[Lawrence Connell]

—but what we have done is we have participated in school visits throughout the Kivalliq region. Our motivation message is to show the kids a pathway to where they can get employment, and encourage them to “aim for the max”.

We've participated in a gems program with some other corporations that actually brought students out to the Meadowbank mine last year. These were bright students, selected from each of the high schools, and they came out and spent time with an elder and a mentor living at the Meadowbank site. They job-shadowed.

Again, we were trying to show pathways for these students, to show them a route where they could come back. It is important that we work on both sides. We want to ensure that we maximize the entry-level jobs and then move them forward within the company by training on the job. But it's also important that we aim to get the next generation of managers, engineers, and accountants from somewhere in Nunavut as well.

We are trying to do that, but the education system in the north does need a lot of work. There are bright spots and there are bad spots. You often see the impact there of one good teacher in a community.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Do I have time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

You have a minute and a half.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

In your presentation you indicated that 175 Nunavummiut people are employed with the company, making up 35% of the current workforce. What percentage of those people are in more than entry-level jobs?

[Lawrence Connell]

I would say more than 90% are in the entry-level positions. We've now started to move a small number upwards with on-the-job training, but we've only been in operation for a couple of months.

Our intent is to take those we already have employed and develop their skills by training them within the company. We have already--

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Do you have an internal mentorship or an internal training program that is more than just on-the-job training?

[Lawrence Connell]

Yes, we do, and laying out a career path for every Inuit employee is actually part of the IIBA.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Great.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much, Ms. Crowder.

Now we'll go to Mr. Duncan for seven minutes, and that will end our first round. Go ahead, Mr. Duncan.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you very much.

My first question is for Mr. Connell. You mentioned Bill C-25, the NUPPAA legislation, and then you stated that it was a good start but that more streamlining is required. Could you give us a couple of examples of what you meant by that statement?

[Lawrence Connell]

The NUPPAA legislation basically enshrines the process we have now, and it critically adds clarity to the process and it adds timelines, which are critical to moving a process forward, but it doesn't do anything to get rid of the overlaps.

If I take a project through the environmental assessment process and on through permitting in Nunavut, I will have gone through three distinct levels of public hearings. At the end of this five-year-long process, even the elders in the community are asking, “Why are you coming back with the same project, with another public hearing round? Why can't these be rolled up and why can't we move forward?”

We believe there is a lot of room for overlap to be reduced by coordinating some of these roles as we move through the process.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

What would be the authority that would be able to accomplish that?

[Lawrence Connell]

It basically has to be coordination among the instruments of public government, the IPGs, meaning the Nunavut Impact Review Board, the Nunavut Water Board, and the Nunavut Planning Commission, all of which are created through the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement Act. There has to be an agreement between those groups to come up with a process that streamlines it.

Right now it's a retreat back to what's entrenched in the land claim agreement, and we're stuck with a process that just isn't working for anybody.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you for providing that clarity.

As part of your presentation you also had a suggestion that referred to infrastructure needs, but it was specific to power generation. Can you give us some examples? We've had other presentations in this regard, but specific to Nunavut, what significant opportunities are there?

[Lawrence Connell]

I think that for Nunavut there is some hydro potential. I'm not an expert, but there are hydro potential opportunities in the Kivalliq region that are being looked at. I also think that small-scale nuclear technology is something that should be looked at for Nunavut.

To put this in perspective, the cost of power for the Nunavummiut person living up there is phenomenal. It's a large proportion of their income, much more than we would ever see or even tolerate in the south. At Meadowbank we've already built the power plant, but our cost of generating power is about 35% of the total operating cost of that mine. If we'd had access to another form of power, it would have significantly reduced the cost of that operation. For Meadowbank that's gone, and I don't mean to apply it to Meadowbank; what I apply it to is other mines out there that may be marginal at this point in time, but that could be shifted into development by just a simple change like that.

We'll also see extension of the diamond mines if we have them linked to a power grid, because as they come past their reserve, one way of extending their reserves is to lower their costs and make the marginal grade of material into ore.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you for that. Obviously it's power generation and transmission capability.

I have a question for Mr. Stevenson.

With regard to community impacts, I wonder if you can describe for us what the Agnico-Eagle project has done for the community of Baker Lake in terms of unemployment and in terms of the overall community and what it portends. This must be very much a sea change in what's happening in the community, and you'd probably be able to give us a better glimpse into the future as well.

[John Stevenson]

I can't speak for Agnico-Eagle, because it's in the Kivalliq region, and I'm in the Kitikmeot region, which is a little bit west of Baker Lake. I've been to Baker Lake recently, and I've been to Baker Lake a number of times over my life, and there has been a sea change. I think it's quite positive. I am much more familiar with Cambridge Bay and Kugluktuk vis-à-vis development. Right now the Hope Bay mine is being developed by Newmont south of Cambridge Bay, and that has had a similar effect on Cambridge Bay and on the entire region in fact. I would say there are probably between 60 and 70 Inuit working at Hope Bay mine right now, and it's only in the early stages. It's just in development, under construction actually.

The plans are, I know, for many more Inuit to be working there. President Evalik has worked on the Kitikmeot skills strategy, which is similar to the strategy Larry referred to earlier. I know from experience, living in that region, that a lot of Inuit worked in the past at Tahera or presently work at Diavik and BHP, and they're reliant on those jobs. It's one thing to get capacity, but when you stop using that capacity, it's a real loss.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

What is the constraining factor here? If the training or the employment opportunity is available, is there take-up from the local community, or is the take-up the limiting factor? Is it the availability of training and employment or is it the take-up that's the limiting factor?

[John Stevenson]

I would propose it's likely that the labour force needs far more skills training. Skills training is predominantly the issue. The opportunities are there, but children are not getting out of high school at the pace we'd like to see, and therefore people are not eligible to even get into training if training were available.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

I guess I'll go in a similar direction to that of a previous questioner.