Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 1st, 2010

[Grand Chief Ron Evans]

As far as I'm aware, there was very little consultation, very little communication. I did submit a letter early on stating our views on the food mail program.

Again, I just want to say how important it is for communication. Obviously, as we're sitting around here we can see that very little communication has taken place. As far as consultation is concerned, we need to be involved, we need to make sure that we have representatives from our regions so that we can properly inform and properly educate our communities so that we can maximize the benefits from this initiative.

As far as the products are concerned, milk and Pampers, for sure, I would like to see them subsidized. If liquor can go to any part of Manitoba at the same price, I'm sure we can do that for milk, which is so important for the health of our future, which is our children who are going to be consuming the product.

I just want to say again how important the need is for more communication, more consultations, and also to ensure that we have representatives who sit on these advisory bodies.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

You have one minute, sir.

[Bernadette deGonzague]

I just wanted to point out that in the Dargo report, on page 22, you'll see the list of people who were consulted or they had discussions with on the food mail program. There was no one who was consulted from Ontario that I can see.

I had another point I wanted to make, but it's gone. I'll think of it later.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Anyone else?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

You have 40 seconds, sir.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

So I will make the most of them.

There is now a problem with traditional food, which is shared among communities. Ms. Simon mentioned earlier that Air Inuit received a subsidy, but I would like to know whether, given the additional funding, we could have found a beneficial way for the communities to continue the sharing under the Food Mail Program.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

There's only time for one response.

[Mary Simon]

I believe so, because we don't have facilities in our communities to package our caribou and other country food in a way that is acceptable to, let's say, the Agriculture Canada standards. People share food all the time, but if we're going to benefit from a food mail program, people in their homes have to package that food and send it to another community. It's not done in a professional building, per se, but it's done by people who are used to sharing. A lot of it is sharing, but right now it costs a lot of money to transport the country food back and forth to different communities because Air Inuit is charging. But through a subsidy program, it would be a lot more cost-effective. Right now, Air Inuit has decided to help out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much, Ms. Simon.

I apologize for my error here. I jumped ahead. I got too much into the pattern of the first round. We're going to go to Mr. Clarke for five minutes. That will be followed by Mr. Payne for five minutes, and then we'll get back on track.

Mr. Clarke, take it away. And my apologies for missing you the first time around.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for coming in. It's great to hear the witnesses coming in, especially from all over Canada, especially northern Canada. It's so diverse. Everybody has a different issue here and a different problem.

First of all, I'm going to ask Grand Chief Evans and Mr. Jock a question. You're an administrator. If you had a program that was only 61% effective, what would you do if your funding was only being utilized by 61%?

[Richard Jock]

I'd talk to the communities that were using the system. The other piece is, for example, about the ones that are no longer eligible for the food mail. I think it would be interesting to find out why. I think that would tell you just as much as the other.

[Grand Chief Ron Evans]

The other thing I just wanted to caution on, when I hear what's being said around encouraging traditional food, is that some of the communities are experiencing a decline in some of that traditional food. So if we're encouraging thinking that our people can go back to the land, which will save the government money, I think that's wrong. I think we should do what we can to ensure we can get all the nutritious food into the communities. If you're going to cut, I think you need to really meet with those communities, make sure that they fully understand they're going to get cut from these programs. I don't think that took place.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Okay.

Just in regard to 61%, Canada Post's food mail is 61% inactive. The rest of the funding is not reaching the communities. That's where I'm looking at some of the statistics here. I know I only have about five minutes to speak, but I go back to the public accounts. Back in 1998 to 1999, $15 million was in the main estimates, continuing to 1999–2000. It remained stagnant at that level to 2003–04. Then we see an increase in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, up to $27 million. But the question I get, and I have to ask you this, is when we see items and the bureaucrats adding items that aren't, I see, food-oriented, essential foods such as bread, meat, vegetables, that's very troubling, because the prices go up through the roof.

I see the stable ongoing funding being increased to $60 million, but when I go to 2008, the total program cost was $47 million. So this government is committing extra funding to try to give first nations.... Especially in my culture—I'm first nations—I'm very concerned about diabetes, heart attacks, strokes, and malnutrition. That is very worrisome for me.

Hopefully, Chiefs, you can answer this question in regard to retailers. I know that a lot of the first nations have stores on the reserve. When we come to picking out produce, will the leaders and the stores be able to pick out the foods that are required for each individual community's needs through the retailers and order them? Also, I look at Nunavut, and every program is going to be a work in progress, but what I see is money spent from years past being spent unwisely and recklessly.

I'm not too familiar, and when I did the tour up north in Nunavut and Iqaluit, I'm wondering.... For diapers, we hear of diapers and toilet paper, I'm just wondering, can they be stored when the season is right through Sea-Cans, through transport cargo containers, and stored over a full year or two years, however long, and keep them stored so they're readily available for the store? That would probably keep the price low.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

You're down to 30 seconds, Mr. Clarke. Sorry.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Sorry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I think I heard.... We'll direct it to Chief Dumas, and then perhaps Ms. Simon. Let's go to Chief Dumas on those questions, and then that will be it.

[Chief Arlen Dumas]

I think your question is twofold. As you can ask me the question, I can ask you the question as well. If you're going to make an investment to try to better the nutrition of the north, then what are you doing to ensure the communities are properly aware, properly informed? What are you doing to accommodate the communities? What are you doing to ensure that communication is there, that information is made available? I can say that as well for my community.

If we want to enhance the food mail program, then it's a collaborative effort. It's not just one way. If we want it to be successful in the communities, then it has to be a concerted effort and everybody has to move in that same direction.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I don't know why we always end up with Ms. Simon at the end, and I end up having to cut her off. But go ahead, Ms. Simon, with just a brief comment, if you could.

[Mary Simon]

He said most of what I was going to say.

Transparency is a very important issue for people at the community level. This program has to work with the people, not just with the retailers and the people who actually sell the products, because they are in it to make money. The consumers are there to reduce the cost to themselves, because it costs three times more to buy milk and bread in our community. Their interest is completely different from that of the retailer. So transparency and working with the community is extremely important. That's probably one of the reasons it was 61% effective. People didn't know that it even existed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Ms. Simon. Thank you, Mr. Clarke.

Now let's go to Mr. Payne.

We have a point of order. Mr. Bagnell, go ahead.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Sorry. I just have a clarification so that witnesses aren't confused. When we had the minister and the officials at committee, they said that in a recent year, it was $66 million in expenditures. That is just so people know.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

All right. I don't know that you had a point of order, but anyway....

Let's carry on to Mr. Payne for five minutes. Go ahead.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for coming today.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

On a point of order, Mr. Clarke.