Evidence of meeting #33 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was product.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
Okay.
Nutrition North is certainly an appropriate vehicle to start looking at how we can provide better nutrition to northerners. I think it's an ideal approach to this whole process we're looking at, and what INAC has come up with.
Mr. Morrison and Mr. McMullen, were you consulted in this whole process? If you were consulted, can you give us some details on the consultation, some of the recommendations you will be able to implement, and any other suggestions you have for the program?
Chief Executive Officer, Arctic Co-operatives Limited
We were consulted throughout the process and initially. When Mr. Dargo was doing his review, a department committee was reviewing the program at the same time.
Following Mr. Dargo's initial report we provided recommendations back to the department. We agreed with the assessment from Mr. Harper that the retail method suggested by Mr. Dargo was not appropriate and we could not implement it. So we went back and made other suggestions as to how the program could work.
The retailers that are organized as a group--the Northwest Territories and Nunavut independent cooperatives that have a service federation, the cooperatives in northern Quebec that are affiliated through La fédération des coopératives du Nouveau-Québec, and the North West Company--came together and reviewed the recommendations of the Dargo report. We provided our assessment of the report and recommendations on how change could be implemented in the program.
Some of the comments we had made in the original assessment by Mr. Dargo were included in the report. Some of the witnesses here today no doubt made the same recommendations we made.
So throughout the process we were asked to provide input. Some of the suggestions we made were included in the final recommendations for the Nutrition North program and some were not, but I have to say that we did have an opportunity.
Is everything perfect, the way we would like it? No. But it is a huge step forward, and we're committed to making it work.
Executive Vice-President, Northern Canada Retail Division, North West Company
Thank you.
As Andy indicated, we were consulted throughout the process and made a couple of submissions to INAC, as an alliance of northern retailers. Mr. Kennedy might have made those available to the committee at the last meeting. If not, we will certainly share them.
Specifically, are you interested in whether we were asked about the food, the nutritious product list?
Conservative
LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
Yes, or any part of that; obviously you had some input on the process through the consultations, so I'd like to hear about some of the suggestions you made and how they were received.
Executive Vice-President, Northern Canada Retail Division, North West Company
Very parallel to what Mr. Harper indicated, and Mr. Pearson: not our place, because INAC was working with Health Canada to determine the final list, to make the final suggestions. This is a nutrition-based program. But certainly, like Mr. Harper and Mr. Pearson said, narrow your focus and go big, essentially, on the products that matter the most. That was our collective wisdom. It parallels what you do in a pure business model. You try to make the products that are most important to your customers the most accessible. That would have been the tenet of our submissions.
We employ a full-time dietitian, and we take best advice from her on what we should suggest, but really, with Health Canada in the starting lineup with INAC, it's better to leave it to the experts for the final list. But I think all four retailers can agree: go big on the things that really matter in the north, and subsidize accordingly.
Conservative
Executive Vice-President, Northern Canada Retail Division, North West Company
Yes, sir.
Conservative
LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
Okay.
We heard about some of the non-perishables on the list. To me they don't fit in a program where we're looking to ensure that the people of the north have the best nutrition possible. So we're going to a different process of getting the non-perishables to northerners through sealifts, ice roads, or whatever other alternate transportation modes can be best used for the best value for those northerners. I think that's an important piece of the puzzle as well.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Thank you very much, Mr. Payne.
Now we're going to go to a five-minute round.
We'll begin with Mr. Russell, and that will be followed by Mr. Dreeshen, and so on.
Go ahead, Mr. Russell.
Liberal
Todd Russell Liberal Labrador, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon to each of you.
There seems to be a little tension between the small independents, who have a different view of this Nutrition North program, from the larger retailers: North West Company and Arctic Co-operatives.
Can anybody guarantee customers they're going to have cheaper perishable products when this program is brought into force? Can somebody look at me and tell me, now, that you're going to be able to deliver those products cheaper to your customers over the length of the program? You must know your shipping rate, storage capacity, and all that.
Can anybody guarantee that the customer is going to get a cheap price?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
I think I'm seeing the hands up of all of our retailers.
If each one of you wants to take a shot, go ahead.
Executive Vice-President, Northern Canada Retail Division, North West Company
I'll take it at the moment, Mr. Russell.
We don't know what the rates are going to be. They're going to vary by community, and there are two levels of subsidy. None of us knows the exact details of the program yet. If you want a guarantee when that's announced, I think all the retailers and air companies could tell you at that time. Until that is announced, it is not definitive.
Does the North West Company think we can lower the cost? Yes, we do. The percentage is yet to be determined. When we get the rates, we'll come back with a less uncertain answer.
President, Arctic Ventures 2000 Ltd
Well, I can't give you that guarantee, for the same reasons Mr. McMullen thinks he can give you the guarantee: I don't know the rate.
INAC is going to announce, some day, a community-specific subsidy for the community I'm in, and a different rate for each of the other communities. It's going to be community-specific, and we don't know what it is.
My freight rate will be different from his freight rate. If I were the bigger customer, I would expect my freight rate to be different. But how much different? I don't know. I may never know.
So I don't know what the price is going to be to the consumer.
Liberal
Todd Russell Liberal Labrador, NL
I'm sorry for not giving everybody a chance here, but I want to get a couple of questions in.
Can anybody guarantee that the non-perishable items that come off the list of subsidized items are not going to go up, or that the impact of less subsidy for a certain amount of items is not going to incrementally increase other products? You have to make up the revenue shortfall somewhere.
Is it the non-perishable items that are probably going to go up?
Owner, Newviq'vi Inc.
The non-perishables have gone up. On October 3, all the non-perishables that came off the list have gone from a standard rate of $1 a kilo, or $2.15 in Nunavut, to the basic air cargo rate, which is $3 and change to Kuujjuaq, $10 and change to Salluit, and $12 and change to Pond Inlet.
Liberal
Todd Russell Liberal Labrador, NL
I appreciate the whole issue around nutritional foods, but believe me, we're not all going to live on bananas and oranges; we're going to purchase other things.
If certain non-perishable items go up, the purchasing power is going to decrease for the customer. If you have less purchasing power and you can't guarantee you're going to get less of a cost for the perishable items, how does this benefit the customer?
I've got less purchasing power. I don't know if the price is going down on my perishable items; it's guaranteed they're going up on the non-perishable items that come off the list. There are infrastructure costs that could accrue to the transporter, and that could influence the rate they charge for air cargo.
I'm just trying to find out, if I'm a customer, where's my benefit? I could end up paying more for an orange.
Owner, Newviq'vi Inc.
You're going to be behind the eight ball as soon as you start because so many people in the north are living on a fixed income. As you rightly mentioned, if you have $100 and you're going to the store to buy your groceries, it's great that bananas are cheap and milk is cheap, but if you're going to be paying three times as much for a can of peas, and $1 more for toilet paper, and you happen to have a baby at home who needs diapers and you're going to be paying $5 more a box.... This is where the buying power comes in, and this is my beef about October 3.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Thank you very much, Mr. Russell.
We will go to Mr. Dreeshen. He will be followed by Monsieur Lévesque.
Go ahead, Mr. Dreeshen.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses.
Mr. Morrison and Mr. McMullen, just to go beyond where Todd was with his question, did your non-perishables go up on October 3?