Evidence of meeting #33 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was product.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Thank you, Ms. Glover.
Ms. Crowder, it's now your turn.
After that, it will be Mr. Weston.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Mr. Chair, I have just a quick comment with regard to what Ms. Glover was saying.
I think everybody agrees that changes were required to the program. I'm not hearing anybody argue that the old program was maintained as it was. I think our responsibility is to make sure that any new program isn't going to have an impact that was unforeseen or unintended, so that's part of the reason, to my understanding, that we're looking at this.
The other comment I had was that I know people keep talking about ice roads, but there are many places that simply never have ice roads, and when you talk about sealift, that's not going to help ship in bananas. According to the Dargo report, I believe 58% of this program is utilized by Nunavut, where there aren't a lot of ice roads.
I just want to come back to Mr. Bateman. My time ran out last time when we were talking about infrastructure costs and we were talking about longer-term investments that you were needing to make. Perhaps you could just finish that statement.
And I wonder, with the change in entry points and staging areas, if there could potentially be some reduced access to flights in some of those communities that are now staging areas, because they won't any longer be required. I wonder if that's a potential.
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, First Air
I don't know if I understand your question. The staging points are defined as the current entry points over our route network in the east--
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
But you won't have to use those any more under this new program.
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, First Air
We don't have to use those staging points. We will accept eligible product at any of our locations for furtherance on--
4:55 p.m.
NDP
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, First Air
Yes, there are. Over our route network, it's Val d'Or, Winnipeg, and Yellowknife.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
So my question is this. Because those entry points are no longer required under the new program, is there potential for a reduced number of flights going into places like Val d'Or because it's no longer a staging area?
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, First Air
If our customers want to tender us eligible product at Val d'Or, we would try to move the largest, most fuel-efficient aircraft through Val d'Or.
As I say, these fellows are my customers. They dictate the transportation chain.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
But in effect, if the retailers no longer need that entry into Val d'Or, there could be reduced flights into Val d'Or and other staging areas if the retailers no longer need those.
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, First Air
Of course. The retailers' decisions will determine where we receive freight.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Okay.
One of the other things that's been floated as a reason for change for this program is competition. In the witness testimony on Monday, there were questions put to some of the other organizations that were there, such as you can just go to another airline if you don't like the prices that you're going to get. Of course, the reality in many communities is there is only one airline that flies in, so there isn't room for competition, but it's also directed to the retailers. Some of us who have lived in smaller communities outside of the north have sometimes had experiences where large retailers move in and crush the small retailers who shut down, and then we're left with one retailer who charges whatever price they feel like charging.
Do you see any chance of that, Mr. Harper?
5 p.m.
President, Arctic Ventures 2000 Ltd
I don't intend to be crushed. I intend to survive.
5 p.m.
President, Arctic Ventures 2000 Ltd
Retailers can charge whatever they want, except under the food mail program, we are constantly monitored by officials from INAC. They are always in our stores doing their price checks and making sure that the system is working and that the prices for things coming under a subsidized rate are not unconscionably high. Boy, it's been a long time since I've heard of any examples of retailers getting rapped for gouging. So we are under scrutiny for that.
As for anything else--Ski-Doo parts, Pampers--you can charge whatever you want, but you can't charge more than the customer will pay. In Iqaluit we certainly have competition. In most communities there's some level of competition.
5 p.m.
Conservative
5 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, First Air
You mentioned that in most communities there's only one carrier. We have direct competition in 98% of the communities that we serve, with the exception of the High Arctic, Resolute Bay, Nanisivik, and the southern Baffin community of Kimmirut. Of the 19 communities that we serve, there's direct competition in 16 of them.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Thank you.
We'll go to Mr. Weston and then back to Mr. Russell.
5 p.m.
Conservative
John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I also wish to thank our guests.
It would be very easy to miss the fact that the story we are hearing today is a story uniquely Canadian, a story of courage linked to the work in the North of our great country, a story about entrepreneurs. I admire you for having the courage to operate in such difficult circumstances. It is a story of accountability and a story of health.
When I say “accountability”, I am thinking about a comment made by my colleague, Mr. Bagnell, who said that the Food Mail Program was costing $66 million. However, I learned that its cost was much lower than that. If you want, I will prove it to you.
If we recognize that the goal of the new program is to improve health and accountability in the interest of northern consumers, what is there in that new program that aims at these two goals?
Mr. Bateman, do you want to start?
5 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, First Air
I'll go back to my original comments. I find that the process is difficult to quantify at this stage of the game when we can't baseline these changes against anything concrete. What were the costs and issues that the changes to this program are trying to address? What have we accomplished with these changes? Where have we qualified the conditions that warranted these changes? Where have we quantified all of these comments that are included in the two major reports? How can we possibly address the issue of what we've accomplished with the new program?
We can't quantify what was wrong with the old program. We make statements that there's no claim process. We make statements about delays in the transportation chain. Where is the concrete evidence that this new change, this new program, is addressing...and what are the quantifiable benefits of it?
5 p.m.
Conservative
John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Okay: so it's hard for you.
5 p.m.
Conservative
John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Mr. Morrison, can you suggest a couple of improvements in accordance with our goals of cost-effectiveness in health?
5:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Arctic Co-operatives Limited
In terms of looking at accountability and improved distribution chain, the fact is that the elimination of a day in the distribution cycle is going to improve the quality of the product that we are able to put on the shelf. The fact that the new program has eliminated a lot of non-perishable products...the dollars are essentially the same, in the $60-million range, the old program and the new program.
If non-perishable products have been eliminated from the program, and those dollars are going to be available for perishable products, is it not reasonable to assume that we're going to be able to provide more subsidy to the perishable products?
If that's the case, if the goal is to provide healthier foods, there's $60 million to less products, and there's a slightly smaller number of communities as well.