Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 15th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Good afternoon, everyone. We are now starting the 34^th meeting of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), today we are looking at the Nutrition North Canada situation.

I would like to welcome Ms. Leona Aglukkaq, Minister of Health.

Welcome to our discussion and panel this afternoon as we continue our consideration of this important topic on Nutrition North Canada.

I should point out that we will be hearing from officials a little later on.

Members, you will know that today we are meeting for approximately 1 hour and 30 minutes. We'll be adjourning at 5 p.m. for another informal meeting with parliamentarians representing the Arctic region. We'll try to wrap up as best we can just shortly before 5 o'clock, so that we can do the switchover and have as much time as we can with our guests.

Without any further hesitation, let's go directly to the minister.

Minister, welcome. Go ahead with your presentation.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Minister of Health]

Thank you and good afternoon.

I'm just distributing copies of photos I've taken. For the last almost 10 years throughout the north I've been taking photographs of food on the shelves. These prices are in my home store in Gjoa Haven. This is what we're up against and why we're here today.

It's my pleasure to be here again to discuss a program that is so important to those of us who live in Canada's northern communities. I have put a lot of time and energy into ensuring that this program works efficiently toward a system that's more consumer price-friendly and ensures a greater variety of nutritious food choices.

In 1960, 50 years ago, the Government of Canada recognized that northerners needed a regular supply of healthy foods at lower prices if they were going to include food such as fruit and vegetables as part of a balanced diet. For decades the federal government has been subsidizing the cost of shipping perishable and non-perishable food and other items to Canada's north. Today, items are provided to 70,000 people in 80 northern communities in Canada's territories and provinces.

We will not change our continued support for access to nutritious food. What is changing is the way we subsidize nutritious food. Items that were previously shipped by air are most times more efficiently shipped by winter roads or by sealift during the summer. This is a very significant change that makes a huge difference in the value being given to northern consumers through taxpayers' dollars. The food mail program needed to be changed because costs were increasing due to almost no limit on non-perishable items being shipped by air.

The intent of the program has always been to provide affordable and nutritious food to northerners throughout the year. Besides being the most expensive mode of transportation, air transport is often not the right way to ship foods to the northern communities.

Many non-perishable items could be shipped by boat at one-tenth of the cost. I'm looking forward to seeing the funds for this program focused on shipping nutritious food instead of non-perishable items. Marine transport is a significantly less expensive method of shipping. In Nunavut, for example, the per-pound rate for shipping by sealift is 23¢, as opposed to a food-mail subsidized rate of $2.50 per pound by air. It does take more planning, but that is part of the reality of living in Canada's north.

Our government took on the difficult task of creating a new system that is focused on getting fresher food to the north in a more rapid and efficient way. It also has to be accountable and transparent in order for the true cost to be better reflected. As a result, the efficiencies of the new model will help make sure that northerners get the maximum benefit from the government subsidy for healthy foods. It will give northern retailers more control over their supply chain. They will cut out the middle man and make the supply chain more efficient. It will create incentives for greater quality control and less spoilage. It will create market conditions in which retailers are better positioned to offer more affordable prices. Fresh food will get to the shelves sooner, making it more attractive to consumers, and meaning there will be less waste of nutritious food.

We are in a period of transition. The Nutrition North Canada program takes full effect in April 2011, but a few weeks ago the subsidy for non-perishable items was eliminated. Back in the spring, retailers were advised that change was on the way so they could increase their orders for non-perishable items via sealift during the summer months. We announced these changes four months before this last sealift set sail so there would be an adequate supply. We hoped that with the advance notice there were be no need and no incentive to ship these often heavier items, such as canned goods, by aircraft.

As you know, I am responsible for the health portfolio, but I am also the regional minister responsible for the three territories. My own territory of Nunavut has the largest number of eligible communities under the food mail program, so the change to Nutrition North Canada is a significant one for the people I represent. The people of the north need milk, fresh fruit, and vegetables.

With the food mail program, where there were fixed dates for shipping food through Canada Post, there were often incidents of food spoiling before it reached its destination. There were incidents of food being sent on days other than prime days of the week for consumers--

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Can you go a little bit slower?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

Sorry. I was told I had ten minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

It's just the speed. Just go a little slower for the interpreters.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

All right.

As I have noted, by changing the way the subsidy is run and giving retailers more control over transportation logistics and methods, we enable the suppliers to get fresher food to the people they serve in a more efficient and effective way.

Canada's north is a vast territory and the needs of communities vary dramatically, but I am also confident that this new program is flexible enough to serve the needs of all of our northern communities.

Our goal is to get a better supply of fresher food flowing to the north. A bigger subsidy will apply to the most nutritious perishable foods, such as fruit, vegetables, bread, meat, milk, and eggs. Other less perishable items, such as assorted types of flour and crackers, and frozen combination foods, such as pizza and lasagna, will also be subsidized but at a lower rate. The best way to get the canned food and other goods that will no longer be subsidized will be by sealift and winter roads.

A good supply of fresh food is essential to the health of our communities and especially our children. An independent study by McGill University found that two out of three Inuit children in Nunavut are overweight or obese, and that the majority of children have intakes of fruit, vegetables, and milk that are less than the amounts recommended by Canada's food guide.

We can't blame the food mail program for those health problems, but those statistics make it clear that there are significant issues that still need to be addressed. We cannot afford to have another generation of children growing up without access to affordable healthy food. A better supply of fresh food will make these foods much more appealing to families and children, and we hope fresh food will become a bigger part of the northern diet.

As I said, this is a period of transition. We are moving from a food mail program to Nutrition North Canada. It's not going to be easy, but it's going to be worthwhile.

Let's take a look at some of the things that it will do. First of all, it will provide funding directly to retailers and wholesalers who already ship large volumes of food and goods to the north. The subsidy for food suppliers will be based on the amount of eligible food shipped to eligible communities. It will also apply to personal orders, so that there is competition for northern retailers. Personal orders will also provide consumers with flexibility related to special dietary needs; it is a program that takes into account individual needs and the needs of communities. There will also be a subsidy for traditional foods, or country foods as we call them in the north. Food like Arctic char and tuktu, or caribou, that are part of the traditional diet of northerners and are processed commercially in the north will be eligible for a subsidy.

I am hopeful that as the Nutrition North program is rolled out and monitored, ways will be found to further strengthen and enlarge the country food dimension of the program in all regions. We know that country food is nutritious and has sustained aboriginal people for thousands of years in a harsh climate.

As well, Nutrition North Canada funding will be available for culturally appropriate retailer and community-based nutrition education initiatives to help maximize the impact of the food retail subsidy. These initiatives will promote awareness, knowledge, and skills regarding healthy eating and the selection and preparation of healthy store-bought and country food. We are encouraging retailers to display healthy food options and give nutrition tips in the local languages. We will support communities in hosting workshops on the sharing of traditional knowledge related to the harvesting of country food.

We are informing northerners more about Nutrition North Canada and how it works. That information will let them make the most of the new incentives under the program. These initiatives will build on national partnerships with retailers and strengthen retail-community partnerships.

One of the problems with the food mail program was that for years there was no effective mechanism in place for reviewing the program to consider the changing circumstances and environment of the north. It remained unchanged since it began 50 years ago.

I'm very pleased that the Nutrition North Canada program will include an advisory committee that will be able to monitor the program and recommend changes as may be required following the rollout of the new program. The advisory committee will be able to look at applying flexibility in special circumstances to eligible communities while staying within the framework of accountability and transparency. As well, through the advisory committee, representatives of the remote communities will have, for the first time, an influence on the evolution of Nutrition North.

Nutrition North Canada was developed in consultation with northerners who shared their experiences and advice on how we should proceed to support access to healthy foods, and together they will help shape Nutrition North Canada into a program that allows the people of the north to have a healthier diet.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Minister.

Before we go to questions, I'd also like to welcome the director general for the Department of Health, Kathy Langlois.

It's good to see you back. I know you've been before us in the past.

We also welcome back Patrick Borbey from the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. You'll recall that Patrick is the senior assistant deputy minister, treaties and aboriginal government. We also have Jamie Tibbetts, director general, devolution and territorial relations branch.

We also welcome back Elizabeth Copland, who joined us in June for our very short meeting on this same subject. You'll recall that Elizabeth is the president of the advisory board for Nutrition North Canada.

Mr. Borbey or Ms. Langlois, did you have anything you wanted to add to the mix at this point? We can go straight to questions, if you wish.

[Patrick Borbey, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Out of respect for the time of the members, we'll just say that we are certainly in the middle of rollout and we'd be very happy to answer any questions the minister may want to pass to us, or we'll stay a bit later after the minister has to leave.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Great. Perfect.

Well, let's go straight to questions then.

Mr. Bagnell, you'll be up first for the first seven-minute round.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for coming, Minister. It's great you're a minister from the north, so you know what the situation is. It's very helpful.

You did mention at the end about this being developed in consultation. You might want to check the minutes from our first meeting on this—you don't have to look anything up, because I'm not even going to ask a question on this—but a lot of the witnesses said it just wasn't sufficient and they needed ongoing development of the program with far more consultation.

Also, just to go on the record, the people from Old Crow need an exemption because this just doesn't work for them, and I hope you'll support that.

My first question is related to the existing program. We've been told there's a list of eligible foods, which is updated periodically by Health Canada, and that Canada Post does inspections to make sure that's the food that's subsidized under the program. Is that your understanding of the existing program?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

That is not my understanding of the existing program. I do know that there items that are shipped up north that are not food. I'll use very real examples that are shipped from the south under food: tires, lumber, Ski-Doo parts. These are not food items. So when you start to use a program and start using it to subsidize non-food items, the retailers have to come up with the pricing for the food, so in the end it results in higher food prices.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

But those are items that were approved by the department. You can't ship everything.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

No, that's what was being shipped before....

One in ten, Patrick says, is inspected by Canada Post.

[Patrick Borbey]

About 10% of the shipments are inspected.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Okay.

And I assume if the situation is going to get better.... I'm delighted you brought some of these pictures. I have some of those too, but these are great. It shows the exact need to improve the program.

So I'm assuming you're committing that we're going to invest at least as much, or more I hope, if we're going to improve the situation in the program in the coming years?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

I can say from the Health Canada point of view that our department will continue to invest in promoting the program and the nutritional values of foods that are being shipped up north.

I can't speak on behalf of Minister Duncan, but what I can say is that we are committed to ensuring that the efficiencies are implemented within this program.

This review process has been taken over five years in the north. I have contacted and dealt with many mayors, and mayors forums, in which--

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Well, my question was just this: is there going to be more money?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

The money will be sustained for this program, but the thing that's not talked about is that we need to put the efficiencies in place to ensure that we're not wasting the resources that we do have on non-food items. That was my point with the example related to tires that I gave you before.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Let's talk about non-food items. You and I both know--because we both have new babies--that diapers are pretty important. I would consider them pretty essential, but when Mary Simon was here, she was complaining that when these were taken off recently--and you'll have to check the minutes--I think the price almost doubled for a thing of diapers. You know how poor many of your people are. How can they afford such an increase? That would take away money they could otherwise use to buy food.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

I went and read all the transcripts from when people appeared before this committee. The example she used was particularly related to the Kuujjuaq situation.

What I can say, as I said in my opening statement, is that every retailer in the north in the locations where this program applies was notified four months before the last sealift, so every retailer had the opportunity to ship non-perishable items that they usually ship on airlines to the ships.

In this particular instance, my understanding is that this particular store didn't do that, resulting in increased shipping freight...but every other community and, I think as you heard through Arctic Co-operatives and the Northern stores, every retailer had made the adjustments to ship the non-perishable items through the sealift this year.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Okay.

You talked a lot about country foods, which is great. I'm glad it's part of the program. But as Mary Simon also said, and as you know, your communities and their hunters trade between communities, and it's very helpful in supporting them. They couldn't otherwise afford to live, probably. They need those country foods. But the program only works on commercially processed country foods, and you know there are very few. Cambridge Bay is one, but there are very few of those. Most of the country foods are not commercially processed, so the subsidy won't apply, yet you spent a long time talking about that in your speech.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

I think it's important to point out that country food has to be included, and this is a start.

It doesn't make any sense to me as a northerner. I am a product of the environment I grew up in. I eat seal meat, polar bear, fish, caribou. If I wanted to ship food from one community to another within the territory, I couldn't, yet I could ship up beef or pork, and it would be subsidized. The feedback from many northerners was that we needed to start somewhere to include country food for people who eat country food.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Most of them aren't eligible.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

The first step is to deal with Cambridge Bay, Rankin Inlet, Iqaluit, and Pangnirtung. Those have commercial establishments.

The second one was to recommend to the advisory committee to review how we can expand the shipment of country food through, for example, hunters and trappers organizations throughout the north and to see if there is an opportunity to expand the program and review that. It is one of the areas we have asked the advisory committee to examine further to expand it. We all know that in the 50 years this program has been in existence, this has never been included, and with the inclusion of country food for the very first time, it will be better reflective of the special dietary needs of aboriginal people in Canada's Arctic.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Bagnell.

Mr. Lévesque, you have seven minutes.