Yes.
Evidence of meeting #34 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was retailers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #34 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was retailers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Okay.
I have a couple of other really specific questions that came up. On the issue of personal orders, my understanding is that the way personal orders will work now is that there will have to be a retailer in the south who is an eligible retailer who has signed on to the program. So when placing personal orders, people will have to make sure that the retailer is actually in the program. Is that correct?
4 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Okay. I just wanted to clear that up. So it's not like they have access to all southern retailers.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Okay. They have to meet all of those qualifications that are set out.
With regard to accountability and transparency, I have a couple of retail issues. I'll ask them all and then turn the floor over.
The documents on the department's website mention cash sales receipts, and my understanding, from listening to the retailers, is that they're not in favour, because they would have to change their whole cash register system. Could you clarify exactly how, at the retail level, people will know which goods and services are subsidized? That's number one.
Second, has there been any discussion of storage issues? It's fine to say that people need to bring things in by sealift, but there are storage issues, and not only for the retailer. There are also storage issues for families, because they simply may not be able to bring non-perishable goods in by sealift and have room to store them.
Could you answer those two questions? I'll figure out the rest of it in a minute.
4 p.m.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
On accountability and transparency, you're right that one of the options looked at was having the subsidy applied directly at the till. At the end of the day, for technology and cost reasons, that option wasn't feasible. So the subsidy will be applied based on the waybills submitted by eligible retailers, and will be verified against the eligibility of the goods. That's how the mechanics are going to be worked out.
For the consumer, the retailers are committing to make that subsidy very visible at the retail level.
4 p.m.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Through storage, signage--
4 p.m.
Jamie Tibbetts Director General, Devolution and Territorial Relations Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
On the cash registry too.
4 p.m.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
--and right on the cash registry so that they can see--
4 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Sorry to interrupt, but I understand that the cash registry receipts won't reflect it.
4 p.m.
Director General, Devolution and Territorial Relations Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
It will be on the cash register receipt, the amount of...the rate per community. It will not do the math for you, but you'll be able to know that your community is receiving $3, or whatever the amount might be, of subsidy for goods.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Okay--and that's per kilogram of weight.
One of the questions that came up from the witnesses was on what kind of oversight mechanism will be in place to ensure that the retailer actually passes on the full subsidy rate. I know that's difficult, because there's inflation, and all kinds of costs go up, but how will the consumer know they're getting the full benefit of the subsidy?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Devolution and Territorial Relations Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
As you know, the Government of Canada does not set the price. We're in a free market world, so we do not set the price on anything much in our society. However, in the claims processing, the companies we sign up in the program will have a contribution agreement that will give us the leverage to enforce accountability and control mechanisms, as well as the other parts of transparency we're requiring.
So each month when they submit their claims to us with their waybills and invoices—it'll be likely data with the larger companies—they will attest that they did pass it on. They'll submit those invoices and other documents so we can do the accounting and cross-checking. We'll get pricing on the goods sold so we can do an analysis by the northern food basket. Those levels of internal controls will be built into this.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
On the northern food basket, that's going to be a consumer price look. So if somebody seems to be charging more than reasonable in the northern food basket, will that be a trigger for you to look at whether the practices are fair and reasonable?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Devolution and Territorial Relations Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Correct. In our contribution agreements, the Government of Canada has the right to audit all recipients under the Federal Accountability Act and other terms and conditions set out by Treasury Board that apply.
All that aside, from our dealings with the major companies in this marketplace, they look at this as a consumer-based subsidy. There's not a lot in it for them to hold it back. They're trying to get traffic in their stores. They see this as an option—
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Sorry, can I just interject for a minute?
How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?
4:05 p.m.
NDP
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Devolution and Territorial Relations Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Their corporate images are important to them as well. They will pass it on, we believe, but we'll also have the accounting and control mechanisms to ensure it happens.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Thank you, Ms. Crowder.
Now we'll go to Mr. Dreeshen for seven minutes.
Go ahead.
November 15th, 2010 / 4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to all the witnesses.
Madam Minister, let me thank you for appearing here this afternoon. The committee is very fortunate to have this opportunity to learn from your experiences, not just as Minister of Health, but as someone who, along with family and community, has seen the need for a nutritious food program.
As a northerner, could you please elaborate for the committee on some of the problems you encountered with the old food mail program, based on your own experiences as a consumer, as well as what you've heard from your constituents in your role as a member of Parliament?
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU
Thank you.
The conversation around food mail in the north has been an ongoing one for quite a number of years now. The most common concern and complaint I've heard, particularly from elders, is that the cost of food continues to increase. Most people who are unilingual don't even know there's a food mail program, as I mentioned earlier. These are seniors on a fixed income, students, single parents, and people on income support; many of these individuals don't have access to credit cards to even do a personal order to ship more affordable food.
You saw what I pay for in my hometown. That's one of the biggest concerns. There was a perception that the subsidy was not being passed on and there's no way of checking. How do we ensure this program is being passed on to people who need it the most? There was no mechanism in place. There was no one to go to for input, the fact that we subsidized the shipment of pork and beef up to Canada's Arctic but we don't ship our own food that we eat.
Food security is not just about affordable food for northerners. The other part that is not often talked about is that food security is also about the ability of aboriginal people in Canada's Arctic to continue to eat the country food that is within their jurisdiction. For example, we have people who advocate the seal hunt or the polar bear. When you only have the five wildlife that you can eat, pretty soon there is very little left that we can eat within our own territory in Canada.
People often forget that this is about food security of aboriginal people. When it comes to that, it's not just about shipping food up here. Food security has to be looked at in parallel. For us, it's to continue to fight to hunt the food we've grown up with. The second part is to continue to get affordable food in our stores.
In terms of my own experience, in the last few years I've taken it upon myself to take photographs of the stuff I've seen--the $200 turkey, the $65 T-bone steak, and all of this stuff. The other part we don't talk about is that many mothers can't afford milk but they can afford a can of pop. So they'll give their child a pop instead of milk because it's cheaper and it stops the child from crying. We're dealing with tooth decay in infants. We're spending millions of dollars transporting infants for surgery to have their teeth extracted because of that. We're seeing a lot of these other indicators that this is not working and that affordable, healthy food is not getting to people. The health indicators we're seeing particularly among aboriginal people is diabetes, obesity, and tooth decay.
Really, the need for change is now, in this area. More importantly, you know, we say we're really the last generation that.... Our kids will not live to be our age at the rate we're seeing obesity in children in Canada. We need to start focusing energy around exercise and healthy eating.
Generally speaking, those are the concerns of northerners that we hear around this program and other things.