Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2010

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Does the program not take this into consideration?

[Jasmin Frappier]

They will subsidize milk, but they will not control the price of a litre of milk. They tell me that they cannot control the retail price. I looked into it because I also don't understand why, after so many years, there is no fixed price.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Mr. Chair, I feel a little less silly and naive, since Mr. Frappier, who has been working in this field for several years, doesn't understand either. Could our research officers perhaps explain this to me?

If there is a program for subsidizing food transportation—and milk being possibly the most nutritious food—what is the rationale for charging $17 for four litres of milk? I think that's what you said. How can we explain this?

If this is really the cost of milk in the north, I believe that the program is not working and that it must be revised. Could one of our research officers explain this during the time allotted to me?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I'll take a stab at it. What's being envisioned here, really, is a complete shift of the subsidy, only to perishable foods. Whereas the old program covered all of the items that were inspected and sent through the food mail program--some of which were non-perishables--this will be exclusively.... It's a higher dollar amount, $60 million, that will be spread across all of the perishable items, but, Monsieur Bélanger, it will be up to the retailer to demonstrate that they are putting the subsidy on the perishable food items through communicating in-store what that subsidy is.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I'm not trying to put you on the spot here, but will the retailer be able to apply some of that subsidy to soft drinks that are not perishable and that are not--

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

No.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

But yet I'm hearing from our witnesses that a bottle of Coke or Pepsi or whatever other soft drink--I'm not picking on Coca-Cola here--is less expensive than a litre of milk. How can that be?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

That's the current situation. Once the program is implemented, the second plank of Nutrition North Canada is to direct the non-perishable shipments by way of the lower-cost transport modes--winter roads and so on.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Okay. Here's my last question. Will there be a sort of list of which items are considered perishable and which are not?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Oui.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Have we seen those?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The list is coming out on December 1. The subsidy rates and all--

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

So it will come out before you conclude your study.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

That will be a topic of conversation après 17 heures.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

You have only 15 seconds, Mr. Lévesque.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

First, I have a point of order.

You said that there is no monitoring of products eligible under the Food Mail Program. I would like to remind you that Canada Post representatives told us that the food list was put together by INAC.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Yes, that's absolutely correct.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

They also said that the Food Mail Program was subsidizing these products. The list has now been scaled back for the Nutrition North Canada program.

Mr. Frappier, if fewer food products are eligible under the Nutrition North Canada program, do you think it will be as good as the Food Mail Program was?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Save your question for later on, Mr. Lévesque.

I think that will help answer Mr. Bélanger's question.

We'll go to Mr. Clarke and then come back to Mr. Lévesque.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for coming in today.

I thank the Chief Mercredi and Darryl McDonald for coming in. It's a long haul to get here with all the communities you have to fly through.

In previous discussions we've had, you mentioned the Northern Store. We know how much of a cartel the Northern Store is in communities across northern Canada. We see what the prices are for certain non-perishables. We look at the Coca-Cola products, the Pepsi products, and all the products that are in the stores. Mr. Bélanger mentioned that milk is a lot more expensive than pop.

We talked about Nutrition North and all of the items that will be posted on the website on December 1. For the study we're doing here, can you give me information on further costs and what types of steps you're taking in trying to promote healthier nutrition in northern Saskatchewan, especially with Fond du Lac being one of the most northern communities in Saskatchewan? You mentioned in the airport about the community forming a co-op, so I wonder if I can get some further elaboration there.

You also mentioned that you're looking at chartering a plane to go once a week into northern Saskatchewan to haul in the non-perishables and then, as the plane is leaving, offering lower rates for people to go to the cities. Can you add some more detail on that topic for this committee, please?

[Darryl McDonald]

The Northern Store in Fond du Lac has been operating for many years--or centuries--under the former Hudson's Bay Company. The North West Company is now the only company operating there.

A year and a half ago, we analyzed the Arctic Co-op model and looked at competition there. It doesn't matter which model we look at--Northern Store or Arctic Co-op--we still get the same product. We may have some savings on the types of products we buy, especially nutritious food.

Then we began to explore air mail or air freight. As this gentleman said, we could further explore reducing overhead costs in delivery and freight now that we know there is an airline company out there. Arctic Co-op's main entry point to deliver products would be Saskatoon. Through the Saskatchewan Co-operative Association, Saskatoon would be the main entry point for its co-op affiliates.

From there, we looked at the products we will bring into communities based on our needs. It will still be comparable to what Northern Store offers. There's still the whole issue of freight costs. based on the five business models we looked at under the Arctic Co-op model and on the types of products we will be bringing in.

At the end of the day, there will be two stores offering the same types of incentives and products, but we still wouldn't get this type of nutritious food, I would assume, based on that competition. Now I hear more stories about other companies out there that could help us with reducing overhead costs. That could be a viable approach that we would have to discuss further with Arctic Co-op once we eventually bring it into the community.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

You have about a minute and a half left, Mr. Clarke.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I'd like to get some clarification in regard to the northern airline, but first of all, on the building of the co-op store, how much have you looked into the storage of non-perishables such as baby formula, diapers, toilet paper, and laundry detergent to lower the costs?

[Darryl McDonald]

We're looking at models of 6,500 to 8,000 square feet to bring more product into the community. Right now in the community, we are lacking products like baby food and so forth.