Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 23rd, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Good afternoon, committee members, witnesses and invited guests.

This is the fourth meeting of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

The focus of today's agenda is the First Nations University of Canada.

I would like to welcome each of our witnesses today.

Before we begin this important study on the First Nations University of Canada, I want to point out to members that we have five organizations represented here.

For the benefit of witnesses, we have votes planned toward the end of our session. You'll hear bells at approximately 5:15. We will have to suspend our meeting at that point and finish, as far as you're concerned, shortly after 5:15.

Since there are five witnesses today, members, I'm going to use a fair degree of control over the length of time used for questions and responses. We will go with the standard seven-minute opening round, and then have five-minute questions for members. Each of the witnesses has five minutes for their opening presentation. We will go through each of the five in order.

We do have the order--thank you very much for assisting us with that today.

We'll go through the order, and once the fifth presentation is complete we will open the floor to questions from members.

I would like to begin this afternoon by welcoming Chief Guy Lonechild. Guy is the regional chief and is here today representing the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations. With him is Dorothy Myo, special advisor to the chief.

Guy, I understand you're doing the presentation. You have the floor for five minutes.

[Chief Guy Lonechild, Chief, Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations]

Yes, sir.

Thank you very much to the members of Parliament, and to all, tansi; marsil; wachiyea. Thank you for inviting me to speak today.

I am speaking with you as chief of the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations. The FSIN represents 74 first nations in the province of Saskatchewan. On October 29, 2009, almost five months ago, I was elected chief of the federation by the chiefs in assembly.

On February 3, 2010, three months after I was elected, the Honourable Rob Norris, Minister of Advanced Education, Employment and Labour, announced that the Government of Saskatchewan would end its $5.2 million in annual contributions to the First Nations University of Canada, stating that his government had “lost confidence in the governance and management of First Nations University”.

This announcement came while the FSIN chiefs were in assembly deliberating those very issues, primarily the downsizing and depoliticizing of the board, as had been recommended in previous task force reports.

On February 4, one day later, the FSIN chiefs in assembly made the right choice. We followed due process and gave political direction to downsize and depoliticize the First Nations University board of governors, thereby dissolving the board.

On February 8, four days later, the Honourable Chuck Strahl, Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, followed suit, announcing that the federal government will end the $7.2 million in annual funding, effective April 1, 2010, citing systemic problems related to the governance and financial management of the institution.

I campaigned for FSIN chief on a platform of openness, transparency, and accountability. Immediately after being elected I met with students to discuss the governance, management, and financial administration issues at the First Nations University. Since then I have worked to put in place changes that were needed.

Now I would like to tell you what the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations has done to address the reasons given by the federal government for ending the $7.2 million in annual funding.

First I will address the governance issues.

Again, on February 4, 2010, the FSIN chiefs in assembly followed due process in giving the political direction to downsize and depoliticize the First Nations University board of governors. As a result, an interim board of governors was appointed, now chaired by Joely Big Eagle, a civil engineer and alumnus of the First Nations University. The members of the interim board are not first nations chiefs or band councillors. They are first nations professionals, some of whom are First Nations University alumni with graduate degrees, and respected members of the first nations community.

In mid-February, a working group was struck, comprised of FSIN, First Nations University, the Province of Saskatchewan, and University of Regina representatives, with Indian and Northern Affairs Canada as an observer. The working group was mandated to come up with a plan focusing on governance, management, and finance, and to explore transitional models or structures to meet the needs of all the parties. This was done and the model was accepted by the FSIN chiefs in assembly on March 8, 2010.

Beginning in early March, the FSIN, as part of the working group, has been actively involved in discussions with the University of Regina. We are very committed to facilitating a strong relationship and agreement between the First Nations University and the University of Regina. As of today, the working group is very close to completing a memorandum of understanding, which I will tell you about next.

The MOU outlines the timeframes for the execution of the agreement for an integrated First Nations University liaison office and the administrative services contract between the University of Regina and the First Nations University. Key benchmarks include a reorganization plan to be completed by April 30, 2010; the establishment of a long-term, depoliticized board, through the FSIN legislative process, by June 30, 2010; the completion of the restructuring and reorganization prior to the execution of the administrative services contract; the confirmation of the indemnification of liability by the First Nations University to address satisfaction of the University of Regina; and also the confirmation of funding from the Government of Canada and Saskatchewan prior to the execution of the administrative services contract.

Therefore, in response to the reasons stated on February 8 by Minister Strahl, significant concrete steps have been taken since early February that address the governance, administrative, and financial management of the First Nations University.

Five years in the life of a university is not a long time. FSIN chiefs in assembly have made the right choices to ensure that governance and administrative arrangements are implemented. These will ensure openness, transparency, and accountability, something we can all agree with.

This institution has a strong history and a future envisioned by our elders that is deserving of continued funding. Once again, we have taken steps in partnership with the University of Regina to address the reasons why the funding was pulled.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay, we--

[Chief Guy Lonechild]

The confirmation of funding from the government—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Chief Lonechild, I don't want to interrupt you there, but are you just about wrapped up? We're over time here right now.

[Chief Guy Lonechild]

I've just got a couple statements left to make and I'm done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay. Wrap it up then, quickly, and that'll be good.

[Chief Guy Lonechild]

The confirmation of funding from government is a condition for the University of Regina to enter the administrative services contract with the First Nations University. Here I am stressing to you that the only way for First Nations University of Canada to survive is with the federal government's commitment of multi-year sustained funding. In other words, the First Nations University equation requires your financial commitment to work.

The Prime Minister said in question period that the federal government is committed to protecting the students at First Nations University. So are we. This is what the plan will achieve. Now we look forward to working in partnership with all parties.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Chief Lonechild.

Next we welcome Diane Adams. Diane is a representative for First Nations University of Canada Student Association.

I will just at this point, for the benefit of all witnesses, remind you that we do simultaneous translation throughout the course of your remarks. So the pace at which you speak, if it's even just slightly slower than you normally talk, our interpreters will be able to keep up with the translation.

Ms. Adams, please go ahead. You have five minutes.

[Diane J. Adams, Representative, First Nations University of Canada Student Association]

Hi, there. My name is Diane Adams. I am a Métis woman from Sioux Lookout, Ontario, in the Treaty No. 3 territory, and I am the president of the First Nations University of Canada students association in Regina.

Today I am sitting before you representing the 2,000 students currently taking classes at the First Nations University of Canada. We currently have 400 classes going on at three campuses. One is in Regina, one is in Saskatoon, and one is our northern campus in Prince Albert.

My first and foremost objective today is to illuminate why it is imperative that the federal government commit sustained multi-year funding to the First Nations University and how important it is to do so. We're receiving $7.2 million, and we can only build from there.

I've come here today to share not only my own experiences but also the accomplishments of our prominent and successful students and alumni. My own educational journey began at a mainstream institution, but two years ago I picked up and moved to Regina to study environmental health and science at the First Nations University of Canada. This is the only place in Canada that I can obtain the specialized education I need to pursue a career as a first nations community environmental health specialist developing innovative, culturally acceptable, and economically feasible solutions to the health problems associated with water, sewer, and housing infrastructure on reserves.

That is what the First Nations University is all about: innovation through bicultural educational. It is a place where knowledge is shared and students go forward with the best of both worlds. The sharing of knowledge is the most important thing to our students, so that they can come out with dual skill sets to enable them to succeed both in mainstream society and with their own first nations traditions.

When the FSIN chiefs in assembly elected Guy Lonechild as their leader last October, the students were very pleased, because he had actively campaigned to bring changes to the First Nations University, the same changes that the students had been calling for for some time. When the FSIN dissolved the board and put our own respected academics in charge, we knew it was the beginning of a new era of accountable, transparent, and qualified governance and leadership at our institution.

While this new era of change for the First Nations University is here, we cannot go forward without the commitment of the $7.2 million that our university had historically been receiving. We cannot go forward without it.

The First Nations University has taught many prominent first nations and non-first nations students over the years. Our students have gone on to be lawyers, doctors, politicians, nurses, managers, and social workers, just to name a few. One of our alumni, Alika Lafontaine, won the prestigious “Canada’s next great prime minister” contest, and is now a medical doctor currently specializing in anesthesiology. Connie Walker is an accomplished journalist working for CBC's The National. We have a provincial deputy minister, and our alumnus Perry Bellegarde ran a campaign for national chief of the AFN last year.

Countless others have completed their Ph.D. and graduate degrees. In the past five years, our nursing program has graduated 71 nurses who are now working in their northern communities, and we have the only school of dental therapy in the country.

That is just a sample of the many reasons that committed, sustained multi-year funding must be immediately restored to the First Nations University of Canada.

As a student, I must point out that no other university in the country relies on or could operate on annual proposal-based funding for its core operation. We could not attract or keep the quality of students I just mentioned on year-to-year funding; degrees take four years to complete, and all students know that.

I'd like to close by reminding the committee that it is the educators at this university who are teaching a new generation of first nations leaders the value of accountable, transparent, and qualified governance in leadership. Tom Benjoe was a fellow student association member. Last year he was named the Red Cross young humanitarian of the year, and he has received more than 30 regional, provincial, and national scholarships. He wanted me to relay this to you today, and I quote:

I strongly believe that change has come. As future First Nations leaders we are proving how education is changing the landscape for our futures, and we are demanding greater accountability and transparency for our institutions and our communities. The FNUniv is helping develop those changes and it is only fitting that change must begin there.

The First Nations University needs that sustained multi-year funding from the federal government. If it is not provided, the Canadian government is sending a strong message to the students of the First Nations University of Canada, to the next generation of young leaders, that accountable and transparent conduct will not influence government decision-making when it comes to financial matters.

With that, I pray to this committee and the Canadian government to lead by example and give value to our commitment to accountability and transparency by reinstating a minimum of $7.2 million directed to the First Nations University of Canada.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Ms. Adams.

I will now turn the floor over to Ms. Vianne Timmons.

Vianne comes to us from the University of Regina. Vianne is the president and vice-chancellor. I believe she is joined by Gary Boire. Gary is the vice-president academic of the University of Regina.

Ms. Timmons, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Dr. Vianne Timmons, President and Vice-Chancellor, University of Regina]

Thank you for the invitation to speak with you today.

I want to acknowledge the chief of our first nations chiefs, Chief Lonechild.

I speak to you today as president and vice-chancellor of the University of Regina, and my words convey a shared vision passed on from my predecessors, the past presidents of the University of Regina. It's a shared vision of First Nations University of Canada as an institution founded to enhance the quality of life of, and to preserve, protect, and interpret the history, language, culture, and artistic heritage of, first nations people. Thirty-four years after its initial creation as the Saskatchewan Indian Federated College, First Nations University of Canada continues to fulfill this vision.

First Nations University of Canada is one of three federated colleges of the University of Regina. The University of Regina approves all First Nations University courses and provides quality assurance on all programs. First Nations University students graduate with a University of Regina degree. This is an innovative approach to the post-secondary education of aboriginal and non-aboriginal students, and it works. This unique educational model has been and remains very successful.

First Nations University enrollment has grown over the years; it stabilized this past year. In total, 40% of Saskatchewan's aboriginal university students take courses through First Nations University, as well as more than 1,000 University of Regina students, many of them non-aboriginal and many of them from far beyond Saskatchewan. They broaden their knowledge of aboriginal culture by taking courses at First Nations University each year. For many, these courses are required for their degree completion at the University of Regina.

First Nations University is not a segregated institution, but rather a unique Canadian institution that specializes in indigenous knowledge, something that is most definitely needed in Canada.

Today First Nations University offers 18 undergrad degree programs and more than 10 certificate diploma programs. It is the unique centre of indigenous knowledge in Canada. It has more than 3,000 alumni, aboriginal and non-aboriginal graduates alike, who contribute to our province and our country. The alumni are all around us, alumni such as Joely Big Eagle, a civil engineer, as mentioned before, and a First Nations University of Canada graduate, who is committed to making a difference as the interim chair of First Nations University's new board of governors.

First Nations University has recently experienced challenges, but they have been addressed. The University of Regina is committed to a new working relationship with our federated college, First Nations University, one that provides management oversight of all operations.

I could provide for you a detailed and painful list of the effects that the federal government's six-week notice of the withdrawal of funding will have on students, faculty, and staff of First Nations University of Canada, but I will not; I will share with you one story.

In Saskatoon I met a faculty member from First Nations University, a Cree woman my age. She's very close to completing her Ph.D. She's the sole provider for her grandchildren. This pulling of funding will mean she will not be able to afford to complete her degree and will likely lose her home. She's terribly afraid, because she knows the impact this decision will have on her grandchildren.

There are many more such stories.

Without federal government support for First Nations University, any gains made over the past 34 years will be lost, and lost forever. Fewer aboriginal learners will realize the benefits of post-secondary education, and Canada will be a less inclusive society as a result. That is not what I want for aboriginal and non-aboriginal students alike, and it's not what I want for my or your children and grandchildren.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Ms. Timmons.

We'll now move on to Mr. Randy Lundy. Randy chairs the First Nations University academic council.

Like our other presenters today, Mr. Lundy, you have five minutes. The floor is yours.

[Randy Lundy, Chair, First Nations University Academic Council]

Thank you.

I want to thank everyone for the invitation to speak to you today.

There is one misconception that some people may have and that I would like to clear up to begin with. It seems to me from talking to various people, particularly people in offices on Parliament Hill, that there is a misconception that it has only been governments that have been demanding changes at the First Nations University of Canada. That simply is not the case. For the last five years, since February 2005, many members of the faculty—the great majority of the faculty—and many of our students have been calling for exactly the same kinds of changes in governance and administration that numerous parties have called for, in particular the federal and provincial governments.

It would be a mistake to think that anyone needs to inform the faculty of the university of the kinds of governance and administrative problems we have suffered over the past five years. Nobody could be more aware of those difficulties than the people who have had to go to work every day in that building and that institution. I don't think anyone would attempt to deny that there have been serious problems with the governance and the administration at the First Nations University of Canada over the last five years. It is important for our funders to remember that there have been people inside the institution, both faculty and students, who have been carrying on this fight every day for five years. We've been calling for the same kinds of changes you have been.

To add to that, I have to also say that while we've had these governance and administrative problems and competencies, to be fair, the integrity of our faculty and of our academic programming has never once been questioned throughout this entire process. In fact, the integrity of the academic programming at our institution and the integrity of the faculty members who teach there has been reaffirmed time and again, and we've been under heavy scrutiny for five years now because of governance and administrative difficulties. Naturally people would want to have a look at our academics as well, and our academic integrity has never been called into question once. This has been reaffirmed time and again by partners such as the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada, the Canadian Association of University Teachers, and our partner institution, the University of Regina.

To continue on that theme and picking up on something that Diane Adams said a few moment ago, it has been suggested to us that first nations students in the province of Saskatchewan will continue to receive funding and can choose to spend that funding as they see fit at whichever institution they choose to attend. That has been presented to us as a choice that students are allowed to make.

Unfortunately, there are two problems with that scenario. One is that it doesn't open up further choices to the students at all. The students already have the choice of which institution they want to attend. They can go to the University of Regina, they can go to the University of Saskatchewan, they can go elsewhere—or they can come to the First Nations University of Canada. They have that funding already from the federal government through ISSP and they can go wherever they choose to attend. Our students chose to attend our institution. If the doors of the First Nations University of Canada are closed, the students will have fewer choices, not more. That is important to remember.

The second thing I would like to point out about this issue is that our academic programming is unique. The taxpayers of Saskatchewan and Canada have been investing in the First Nations University of Canada for 34 years now. In those 34 years, in spite of underfunding and in spite of difficulties with governance and administration in the past five years, we've been building capacity. To expect that the University of Regina or the University of Saskatchewan could suddenly pick up in the absence of the capacity we've been building for 34 years is patently absurd.

The fact is that our academic programming is unique and can't be duplicated by any other university in Saskatchewan, or anywhere else in the country as a matter of fact. Just as a couple of examples, we have a department of Indian languages, literatures, and linguistics, which is the only program of its kind in the country and in the world in its focus on first nations languages.

As head of the English department, I can speak about the English department most competently, perhaps. We have seven full-time members, five at our Regina campus, one in Prince Albert, and one in Saskatoon. We teach almost exclusively aboriginal Canadian literature and a little bit of the American Indian literature.

Now, that teaching capacity and the expertise gathered in our department over 34 years doesn't exist anywhere else in the country, and this is true of pretty much every one of our departments.

Sorry to our partner here, but there is no one in the University of Regina English department who is qualified to teach first nations literature, Canadian or American. And that's a fact.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Can you wrap up there now, Mr. Lundy? We're a bit over time.

[Randy Lundy]

Absolutely.

The last point I'll make is this. What we've seen in the leadership, both at the Assembly of First Nations and, more importantly for our purposes, at the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations, is a change in leadership that is a generational change. We are finally seeing the kind of young educated first nations leaders many of us have been hoping and praying for, for some time now, and certainly very hard in the past five years.

Under the leadership of Chief Lonechild, we've seen the kinds of wholesale changes the province has been asking for, for five years, the federal government has been pressuring for, for five years, and the kind of changes the faculty and students at the institution have been demanding, for five years.

If we want to reward transparency and accountability, then the funding should be restored to this institution. We need $7.2 million as a bare minimum to move the institution forward.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Lundy.

I would now like to call upon Mr. James L. Turk of the Canadian Association of University Teachers to make his presentation.

Mr. Turk, please go ahead.

[James L. Turk, Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to members of the committee for inviting us to be here.

I'm the executive director of the Canadian Association of University Teachers. We represent 65,000 academic staff, at 122 universities and colleges across Canada.

For the past five years, our organization has been the most persistent, relentless critic of the administration and board of First Nations University of Canada.We felt that actions taken in 2005 violated serious principles of governance that are necessary for any university in this country, or in fact North America.

We have worked diligently since February 2005 to get this situation changed. Over that five years we have met with the board of governors of First Nations University; the president and senior administration of the University of Regina; the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada, which is the presidents of universities organization; the government; the minister; and the deputy minister in Saskatchewan.

The only institution that refused to meet with us during that five years was the Government of Canada. I have a number of letters that I sent to previous ministers and deputy ministers asking for meetings and they persistently refused to meet with us. We were unable to get necessary changes, so finally, in 2008, our organization took the most serious sanction we have, and that is to censure the university--the administration and board of that university. We haven't had to censure a university in this country in 28 years. We have censured other universities in the past--the University of Victoria, Memorial University, the University of Calgary--and those censures led to changes. Sometimes it took a long time. At Memorial, it took 10 years to get the necessary changes.

We took that step, which was a huge step for us. We saw nothing else that we could do to put pressure on to get the changes. The reason we were so persistent--and we made lots of enemies in this process--is because this is a unique institution. It's the only first nations university in this country. It's the only institution for first nations students who want to go to an institution in a first nations culture and tradition to study. That's why, as Ms. Adams indicated, many are there.

We wanted the institution to survive, but we knew that without changes to its governance structure it would not be able to.

Finally, in 2009, there was a real breakthrough. The FSIN elected a new grand chief--Chief Lonechild, who is with you today. Chief Lonechild worked very hard, and he showed enormous political courage to push through fundamental changes to the governance structure of First Nations University. The university board of governors was dissolved, and a new board was established along the lines that a series of commissions and task forces and CAUT had called for: a smaller and depoliticized board. Subsequently the University of Regina, the First Nations University of Canada, and the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations have entered into discussions, which Chief Lonechild referred to, to deal with the administrative side.

In other words, all the pieces necessary for this institution to succeed have been put in place. The only missing element now is the $7.2 million of core funding that the federal government withdrew--and I draw your attention to this--four days after the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations dissolved the board of governors and agreed to make the changes we had all been calling for.

In conclusion, without the federal government's commitment to restore the $7.2 million in core funding by March 31, almost all the faculty and staff of this university will have to receive layoff notices on April 1. That will be the beginning of the end of Canada's only first nations university. The future of that university lies in the hands of the Government of Canada.

We urge you, in the strongest terms, as the organization that has been the principal critic of what has been happening there, to recognize the changes that the FSIN, the University of Regina, and the First Nations University have made around financial and administrative arrangements to allow this institution to survive. We urge you to do that in the strongest terms.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Turk.

I want to thank all of the witnesses for their presentations. We will now go to questions from members.

Mr. Russell, for seven minutes.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon to each of you, and thank you for taking the time to come here to Ottawa, particularly on such short notice. I understand the urgency of this particular situation for each of you, and just as importantly of course for the students and faculty and all of those who are impacted by the federal government's decision not to fund the First Nations University of Canada.

I have to say that in my almost five years at the committee, this is some of the most powerful testimony I've heard and the most compelling arguments around a particular position. In this case, it's to keep the First Nations University of Canada open. Over the last number of weeks and months, we have heard a great many different stories reported through many different types of media, whether it's by radio or by newspaper or by television, about what is going on or not going on. It is refreshing to see that you are bringing to light exactly what is happening, because when we ask questions in the House of Commons--I have to be quite frank with you--to the minister on this particular issue, Minister Chuck Strahl, all we get is the negatives. We have never heard of its successes. We have never heard about the uniqueness. We have never heard about the positive changes that are taking place.

There have been many calls by ourselves, many of my colleagues in the House of Commons, to restore the funding, and of course our leader, Michael Ignatieff, has added his voice to that as well.

You have laid out every criticism that's been levelled against this institution. It seems to me that every criticism that's been levelled against this institution by the Conservative government has been answered, so where do we go? When I asked the minister last Thursday if there was any scenario that he could see where funding would continue, he did not answer the question, but continued to raise doubts about the progress that has been made, about changes that you have undertaken. And these are extraordinary changes, as many of you have said, with FSIN and the leadership of Chief Lonechild, and indeed I would say all of you at this particular table.

However, I think it is important as well for us to enunciate that you have made the fundamental change in governance, in administration, in management, that everybody who was a critic has asked for. You have done your part. Now it's up to the federal government to assure that this new model can succeed and, as many of you said, reward transparency and accountability, not penalize it.

There's also been a perception that, oh, when March 31 comes, April 1 comes, the students can just move from one institution to another, that life will go on as usual, that somehow faculty will all find jobs, that, somehow, this unique university will not survive.

I want to ask each of you--in a very short timeframe, I know--to tell us what impact this will have upon the students and the faculty and FSIN.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Just before you start with that--I'll stop the time here temporarily--the way this works on a seven-minute question is that this includes the question and the answer. So we can get more in if you keep your responses succinct and members keep their questions succinct also. I'm sure we'll receive a number of questions from members. The more succinct we can keep it, the more we'll get through.

With that, please carry on, Ms. Adams.

[Diane J. Adams]

I think the most important thing to remember is that the students of this institution are people who chose to come to this institution.

When you're entering into university, at whatever age you're at--and I assure you that our demographics look much different from those of the average university, as most of our students are actually well into their thirties, with, I would guess, 80% of our student body being parents, many of them single parents--you have made a choice about your future. You have made a choice about your future career, and you are busy defining what the path of the rest of your life is going to be.

The threat of the closure of this institution has basically thrown a wrench into the hopes and dreams, and plans for the future, of every single student who is going to that university. For many students, there is not an option to go to a mainstream institution. First nations students have barriers to being successful in post-secondary education. At the First Nations University for 34 years the first nations people have been addressing how to address the barriers, and only we know how to do it.

With that, I suspect that many of our students will just exit post-secondary forever. And if not, the future plans that they had trotted out over many years, and have overcome many hurdles to get to, will just basically be trampled on. Their futures are very uncertain. It's very disheartening for the students at the university.

[Randy Lundy]

Todd, were you going to follow up?

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

No, just go ahead, sir.

[Randy Lundy]

I just want to make clear that we are talking about whether the doors to the institution are open or not. From what I've heard from Minister Strahl, he's not inclined to restore the $7.2 million in federal funding. He seems to want to fund students to go wherever they choose to go--as long as it's not us, because our doors won't be open.

What that means is that 66 faculty members will be out of work, about a couple of hundred staff people will be out of work. So we're looking at least 200 or 250 staff and faculty who will be on the unemployment line. I don't think that's necessarily a plank in Canada's economic action plan, but that's what we're looking at. We're going to be at least 200, 250 people unemployed.

More importantly than whether we find jobs or not elsewhere, as I was suggesting earlier in my comments, what's important is that we have a gathering, a nexus of expertise here that will be dispersed, and it exists nowhere else in the country. If we don't get that funding back in place, then all of that expertise is going to be dispersed and spread out thinly across the country. We're going to lose a very important resource, a very important capacity that, as I said, has taken us 34 years to build.