Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 23rd, 2010

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for coming here today.

I'm a former educator. As a matter of fact, ironically, I have taught for 34 years, the length of time that your institution has been around.

Whether it's labour disputes or week-long blizzards during diploma exams and so on, I know there's a lot of stress that students have. I'd like to really focus on the types of things that are happening for the students, because that's really where I'm coming from, and for all the educators and business managers who are here, that should be what we're talking about.

To Ms. Adams, what types of support from staff and from your peers are you getting in order to relieve some of the pressures that students will be having under this stressful situation?

[Diane J. Adams]

I think that were it not for the fact that we were students of the First Nations University, we would all have had nervous breakdowns by now. Fortunately, First Nations University has been incredibly successful in creating what I like to call really a home, a safe place.

In fact, I would just like to let you know that right now the students of the university have moved into the university, because they feel it is their home, and the faculty and the staff have committed to not only being people who facilitate education but to being mentors and supporters. There's also the fact that we have three staff elders.

So it is the cultural components that are allowing students right now to continue and the fact that I and our student association have been fighting on behalf of most of our students so that they can go back to school.

However, the traumatic effects of the pulling of the funding are far and wide, and I would just like to give you an example. The president of our student association in Saskatoon is expecting, and the stress of the situation, because of the government's action to pull the funding, has put her at risk of miscarriage of her pregnancy. That is the true effect of these actions.

You know, it's really a situation where thank goodness we're at the First Nations University, because if we were not, we would be in big trouble.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Thank you for your comments. I guess I was trying to see whether or not there is some sort of cohesion or whether the problems you've indicated are being exacerbated by commentary, some of what we're hearing today, and it's kind of unfortunate that it is taking place.

On our tour of the territories last fall as a committee, we met with several college leaders and we found a great collaboration between the facilities and their affiliates, such as the University of Regina.

I wonder, Ms. Timmons, whether you could explain how that affiliation works and how your distance learning program works. I know that a lot of discussion took place about language training in my former school division. This is something that we did online. It's something that is being expanded upon. This is the way in which we are planning to reach out to all other areas.

I'm wondering whether it becomes part of the model that you have, and quite frankly whether or not, if the university were trying to expand to all people, they would be thinking of those models rather than the concept of institutionalizing: bringing people into one particular facility area.

So my first question is for Ms. Timmons, and then perhaps Mr. Lundy.

[Dr. Vianne Timmons]

The University of Regina has extensive outreach programs, right into Nunavik, where we do our Bachelor of Education program with Arctic College. We do programs in Whitehorse and we do programs all over Saskatchewan, as does First Nations University presently.

We have not duplicated the knowledge base at our federated college, First Nations University, so we do not have the capacity or knowledge in our own institution to do the kind of work First Nations does. It would seem ridiculous to us to hire people when we have expertise in a federated college that our students access all the time. As I mentioned before, a thousand of our students access courses through First Nations University. We approve all the hiring of the faculty; we approve all the courses they offer. So we're intimately integrated, but we have no intention of duplicating the vast knowledge there. And they do outreach all over Saskatchewan and into the Northwest Territories, as do we. We don't duplicate; we complement.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Lundy.

[Randy Lundy]

Unfortunately, we've been under-resourced in terms of developing the level of TEL, which is what we call technology-enhanced learning. We simply haven't had the funding in place to do as much as we would like to do in that area. So federal funding in the realm of $10 million to $12 million would be very nice, because it would allow us to do that.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Let me ask a question: is this because of a lack of administrative oversight that you've had in the last number of years? You said that you folks had talked to the administration and said that there are problems and difficulties that occur. I know that as you're speaking now you're asking, “What can we do in the future?”, but I'm curious to know whether some of those things had been discussed prior to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We are out of time, so make just a short response.

[Randy Lundy]

We haven't had the financial capacity--to keep it short--and obviously we won't have, if we don't get our funding restored, and soon. So that has been the holdup.

In terms of moving forward, absolutely it's an area we need to expand into and do more in than we have done in the past. Only certain programming is actually deliverable through those models; there is some “face to face” that has to happen in certain programs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I'm sorry, Mr. Lundy, we're out of time.

Thank you very much, Mr. Dreeshen.

Now we'll go to Ms. Fry, for five minutes.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I want to apologize for any suggestion that many of us in this committee did not believe your word when asked what the worst thing was that you were told by the government. You said you were told that they didn't care. I would like you to know that many of us accept your word.

Secondly, when a department or a federal institution is audited and it's shown that it isn't doing its job appropriately or that there are administrative problems, the Auditor General in many instances allows that department or that institution to fix it, to carry on, and gives them a first chance. That's the first thing that is usual procedure.

Thirdly, given that universities cannot exist without core funding and that most or all universities get core funding from provinces, but that you, because of your uniqueness, are the only university which the federal government has a fiduciary responsibility to fund, then obviously you would close if that funding did not occur.

My question, therefore, is this. Given those processes, given the ability to give people a chance to set a plan of action, and given that the University of Regina has agreed to partner with you on administration, have you had any sort of response from the federal government that shows and understands...? Has it moved forward in any way to help your university continue to provide the unique services that it does?

[Chief Guy Lonechild]

I would say that by its—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I'm sorry, Chief Lonechild; I have to stop you there. We have a rule here that once the bells begin, we need unanimous consent of the committee to proceed with the meeting.

I'll just ask, then, is there consent to continue with the meeting for, let's say, another 10 to 12 minutes?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

There is no consent.

Ladies and gentlemen, I appreciate your time and interest this afternoon. This has been very helpful. You will know that we have a second meeting planned; we'll continue with witnesses.

Members, we will reconvene here immediately after the votes. We'll have some food here for you. I'll ask you to come quickly, get a bite to eat, and then we'll sit down and get going as quickly as we can.

Again, thank you very much.

The meeting is suspended until after votes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Members, we're going to get under way here for our second section of this study of First Nations University of Canada.

We have most of our guests. We have three joining our committee meeting by video conference.

First, I'd like to say to all of our witnesses who are joining us by video conference that we apologize for the delay. The House had votes—a number of them—to get through. I'd also like to say that you'll see on your screens that members are having a bite to eat. We're going to make this a working session.

For those of you who are joining us by video conference, we'd like to pass along that the audio and video are going to be voice-activated; that is to say that when you put your microphone button on, members here at the committee room will see your video image come up as well. So when you wish to join the conversation to make a point, simply by putting your microphone button on you will have video. We have three different witnesses, but members will only see one at a time here in the room.

Members, when you're speaking to someone who is on video link, direct your attention to the camera that happens to be zeroed in on you and you'll be speaking directly, as opposed to talking to the screen, which we tend to do just out of human nature. I've done this myself. So if you would direct your attention towards the camera, that would be great.

I'd like to begin. We have five witnesses. We'll proceed with a five-minute presentation from each one.

We'd like to begin by inviting the Honourable Rob Norris, Minister of Advanced Education, Employment and Labour with the Government of Saskatchewan, to speak.

Minister Norris, it's great to have you with us. We'll begin with a five-minute presentation. We'll go from your presentation through each of the four remaining, and then we'll open up to questions from members--

We have a point of order.

Mr. Rickford.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Actually, Mr. Chair, I'm not sure it is a point of order, but I'll try it out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Well, go ahead.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

I wasn't sure whether we were officially finished with the last round of guests, and certainly on behalf of my colleagues here and on my own behalf, we want to thank those who are still here from the previous round. We appreciate very much the enthusiasm and their presentations. I wasn't aware that we were completely finished with that round.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Yes, because we came to the end and bells were on; we had to finish with the first round. And we did thank the witnesses.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

To them, then, thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

It's good that you should add your thanks as well for the time they spent with us earlier.

Let's go ahead, Minister Norris.

[Rob Norris, Minister of Advanced Education, Employment and Labour, Government of Saskatchewan]

Thanks very much for the opportunity to join you, sir, and your colleagues.

Speaking on behalf of the Ministry of Advanced Education, Employment and Labour, and certainly on behalf of the Government of Saskatchewan, I appreciate this opportunity to appear before the standing committee to discuss First Nations University and, more broadly, issues pertaining to post-secondary educational endeavours for first nations and Métis students within the province of Saskatchewan.

I am joined here today by a number of officials, but I think what I'll do is jump directly into the body of my remarks.

We know the significance of post-secondary education for first nations and Métis students, as well as for others within the province of Saskatchewan. We're pleased that we have more than 13,000 first nations and Métis students participating in a range of post-secondary programs across our province. Those attending the First Nations University of Canada would come in at just under 1,000.

This is certainly not to detract from the significance of those students, but it is to put it in a broader context. The significance of this context, quite simply, is that we have a variety of models and, quite frankly again, there is enough work for everyone on this very important public policy issue.

Having noted the context, I'll speak directly to some of the evolution of First Nations University over the last five years. Over the course of the last five years, there has been an ebb and flow of controversy. As we came into office in late 2007, I was brought up to speed quickly on some of the key elements of those controversies.

By the summer of 2008, officials within First Nations University had approached me. The message was clear: there was a financial crisis at First Nations University. In addition to the millions of dollars that the province had already given as part of our routine budgeting, we found an additional $2 million: $1.1 million to take care of an outstanding collective bargaining agreement that had been in existence since 2005, then $500,000 for increased operational spending and $400,000 for a blueprint. That took the form of the Hanselmann-Standing report. Not unlike a previous report, the All Chiefs' report from 2005, this blueprint laid out a plan for progress.

Instead of seeing the progress that we had agreed to, there was a period of backsliding, and as we've seen over the course of the last year or so, a vice-president has been fired, CAUT has put a censure on this institution, a CFO has been fired, and along with that firing came allegations of misspending in the forms of trips, excessive compensation packages, as well as a variety of other problems. We had delays on another report that was commissioned, by Dr. Begay, and more recently we've come to discover that there are a number of questions outstanding regarding restricted funds, those pertaining to scholarships.

In early February, after much prompting and prodding, we can say that we sent a clear message, and that was that the Government of Saskatchewan had lost confidence in the direction of First Nations University. We made some very public, important comments that I think hold true today. We would not renew funding for First Nations University. We said that a path forward for the students and for others would be through a partnership, and that partnership could be with any relevant post-secondary educational institution in the province of Saskatchewan. We said we would put an emphasis on student success because, after all, this is vitally important not just for Saskatchewan but for all Canadians, and we made a clear point that we wanted and expected federal dollars, those federal dollars that were also removed from this file in the days following our decision. We expect those dollars to stay in Saskatchewan.

We also met with Chief Guy Lonechild. I want to applaud Chief Lonechild for his efforts. Under his leadership, he's been able to reinvigorate a reform process within this institution. Work began through a working group that has gone on for more than six weeks.

Today, obviously, you've heard and we're pleased to report that there is an umbrella agreement, an MOU that has been signed, which I think ensures that we have a blueprint for the future. It ensures greater certainty for students, greater accountability for taxpayers, and under specific conditions will ensure that provincial dollars can flow, investing in that partnership. Again, our goals are to ensure that the students, upon whom we put such great value, can continue in their studies. But we also want to make sure that there's increased accountability for the taxpayers of this province.

I want to say that all the way along I've been able to have a very respectful, frank, but friendly relationship that has been established with Minister Chuck Strahl. At this stage, certainly after ongoing dialogue, I would like not just to provide an update regarding the MOU but to say clearly—with respect, with all sincerity, but with great seriousness—that we would like the federal government to keep these federal dollars in Saskatchewan by investing in the partnership that has been established and signed today. We think this partnership, while far from perfect—and certainly we are attentive to the fact that there are many steps yet to take, with conditions that have to be met—offers an opportunity to help give greater certainty to our students and greater accountability to the taxpayers of this province.

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Minister Norris.

We'll keep you on standby.

We have two other presentations here in the room, and we'll go back to the others. We'll take the rest in sequence.

Now I would like to invite back Ms. Christine Cram. Christine is the assistant deputy minister for the education and social development programs and partnerships sector of le ministère des Affaires indiennes et du Nord canadien.

Madam Cram, it's good to have you back.

You have the floor, for five minutes.

[Christine Cram, Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Thank you very much.

Good evening, Mr. Chair, committee members, ladies and gentlemen.

Thank you for the opportunity to be here today to talk about the First Nations University of Canada and, most importantly, to discuss the important steps being taken to help ensure current students of the university can complete their academic year.

Minister Strahl has been clear that helping first nations students access and complete their education is a priority, while at the same time the government must be accountable and transparent to all Canadians, including first nations.

For many years, Indian and Northern Affairs Canada has worked with the First Nations University of Canada to help it address the long-standing systemic problems related to governance and financial management of the institution. There were repeated delays by the institution in taking action on these matters. After assessing the long-term implications for sustainability of the institution and based on the record of the institution, Indian and Northern Affairs Canada decided it would no longer directly fund the university, effective March 31, 2010.

I would like to provide some context on Indian and Northern Affairs Canada's financial relationship with the First Nations University of Canada. Indian and Northern Affairs Canada has provided more than $7.3 million annually to the university to support its core operations through the Department's Indian Studies Support Program. The total budget of this program nationally each year is approximately $22 million. The program supports more than 60 post-secondary institutions with their First Nation and Inuit studies programming across Canada. As with any financial agreement, there are terms and conditions which must be met to ensure accountability and transparency for how government monies are being spent.

In 2009 the department's regional office implemented performance-based funding in an attempt to move the university's board toward a better governance structure. The department and the university both agreed that approximately $1.2 million in funding would be held until two critical reports were released by the university, tabled by the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations, and delivered to the department by the agreed-upon timeline.

These reports were a board of governors manual and a report on governance reforms, commonly referred to as the Begay report, due June 30, 2009, and a comprehensive action plan due January 1, 2010. These reports have recently been received. Pursuant to its financial commitments under the current funding agreement for fiscal year 2009-10, which is effective until March 31, 2010, the department released $1 million last week. The final $250,000 will be released later this week.

Although our financial arrangement with the university is ending, the $7.3 million investment that was previously allocated to the First Nations University of Canada will remain in the department's Indian student support program under the post-secondary envelope and will be available for proposals that meet the terms and conditions of that program.

Note that this does not include operational funding. The ISSP funds the direct cost of developing and delivering college- and university-level courses for Indian and Inuit students, or of research and development of Indian and Inuit education. Operations funding for the First Nations University of Canada was the subject of an exceptional Treasury Board submission.

The First Nations University of Canada, as well as other eligible institutions, are always encouraged to submit proposals for funding consideration, provided that proposals are within the program guidelines.

The department's investments under the Indian student support program are supporting a wide range of programming, from aboriginal early childhood education programs to first nations governance programs and community health programs. These types of first nation and Inuit focused programs are providing benefits to the lives of not only the students undertaking those studies but also their families, and to the communities and Canada as whole.

The department also provides approximately $300 million annually for financial assistance to eligible first nation and Inuit post-secondary students, including many students enrolled at the First Nations University of Canada. This is for their tuition fees, books, transportation, and living expenses. The funding is provided irrespective of the post-secondary institution they attend.

We all understand the importance of education and know that education is key to success and prosperity in today's knowledge-based society. The government wants first nations and Inuit to graduate with the skills they need to enter the labour market successfully and share fully in Canada's economic opportunities.

Improving education outcomes is a top priority for the government, and particular emphasis is being put on partnerships as the way forward for improving academic success for first nation and Inuit students.

We are encouraged by the fact that a joint working group was recently established between the Province of Saskatchewan, the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations, the First Nations University of Canada, and the University of Regina. We are hopeful that the partners will take measures to ensure that students are able to complete their academic year.

The department is also pleased that the Chiefs of the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations approved the interim transitional model for the university.

We understand that these are difficult times for students and faculty, and the department's priority is the students currently enrolled at the university. We are working with our partners to help provide students with the support needed to successfully complete their academic year, and the department is committed to working with first nations, provinces, and our partners to improve access to post-secondary education and improve academic success.

Mr. Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to discuss this important issue with your committee. Merci beaucoup.