Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 24th, 2011

[Margaret Melhorn]

--one way or the other.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

That's telling in itself. I know that Mr. Bevington has talked a number of times about the continuing colonialist approach, and that certainly seems to be embedded in the relationship.

I'm not asking you to comment on that. That would put you in a very difficult position.

With regard to devolution, was there a full consultation around the devolution agreement? People are talking about consultation. Was there consultation with, for example, other federal government departments that could be included, such as Indian and Northern Affairs? What was the consultation process in terms of the consultation with the people of the Northwest Territories about the devolution agreement in principle?

[Margaret Melhorn]

The devolution agreement in principle has been under discussion across the north for probably the last ten years, when the initial framework agreement was entered into between the Government of the Northwest Territories, the Government of Canada, and aboriginal groups in the Northwest Territories. The negotiations were with Indian and Northern Affairs primarily, although Finance Canada was involved.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

There was a full consultation by the Northwest Territories?

[Margaret Melhorn]

Oh, yes.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Okay.

Mr. Bevington, did you have anything you wanted to add to this particular discussion?

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Well, we saw the case in Yellowknife where the aboriginal groups that weren't included in the AIP asked for the INAC minister to consult with them in Yellowknife, and he wouldn't meet with them. That was a matter of months ago.

That's something that was in the press. There was a lot of negative reaction to that in the Northwest Territories, the fact that the consultation between the INAC minister and the aboriginal groups that he has a fiduciary responsibility with didn't take place.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Yes, that's a concern. That's certainly something that my office has heard.

Ms. Melhorn, I want to come back to the fact that we haven't been able to get an answer today about how much revenue is generated out of the Northwest Territories that ends up in federal government coffers, whether it's royalties or taxes collected. Much has been made of the money that comes back into the territories.

Do you happen to have those numbers?

[Margaret Melhorn]

Unfortunately, I don't have them with me. The royalties that Canada collects from the Northwest Territories, from the mining and oil and gas development in the north, are a matter of public record. They're published in the Public Accounts of Canada.

As Mr. Forbes said, with respect to the net inflow and outflow of federal money and money out to the federal government, that is calculated by Statistics Canada. The particular numbers depend on the given year and the amount of economic activity.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Yes. It's going to fluctuate from year to year.

I'm actually surprised, though, that we aren't able to talk about that today, because it seems like an important number. We'll perhaps ask Mr. Forbes to provide us with the information around the net inflow and outflow. I think it's an important part of the conversation.

Do I have more time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

You have one minute left.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Bevington, on the issue around consultation and just generally about your bill, it sounds like people are trying to make a case that you haven't talked to the appropriate people. But I know from letters we've gotten, certainly from the premier and others, that there seems to have been support for you to move forward on this initiative.

Are you comfortable that you did what you needed to do in terms of moving this bill forward and talking to people of NWT?

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

What I have done is try to address as many of those issues as possible. We gave opportunities in terms of press releases on this as early as June of last year. It certainly had a great deal of discussion in the media. Certainly with the important players we needed to talk to about this particular bill, that has happened.

I can't answer for members of the legislative assembly who don't read the newspapers and come to me. We offered all MLAs a meeting with Jack Layton and me on September 2 to discuss that issue. If they chose to come, that could have happened. I know that Mr. Ramsay, who lives in Yellowknife, chose not to come, for whatever reason.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Ms. Crowder.

That is all I have left on the list at this point, unless there are more who wish to put questions.

Just before we go to the next item on our agenda, I want to come back to a procedural point that I perhaps glossed over and that I want to point out for members. In our consideration of the motion by Mr. Rickford, there was a suggestion to move directly to the question. Normally that should not happen until all of the speakers on the list have had an opportunity to put their question. Ms. Crowder had been next on the list, and she indicated that she would relinquish her spot. However, there were two government members still on the list. So I apologize to government members, because we jumped quickly to the question, and I didn't seek the same consideration as to whether the two government members wished to relinquish their spots as well. I erred in that, and I do apologize.

Let's now go to the clause-by-clause consideration. We have Mr. Wayne Cole here with us from the legislative services office to assist us.

I must say that it is a very technical bill.

We're still in public. You're welcome to stay. If witnesses need to leave, thank you for your participation. You're welcome to stay if you wish. This shouldn't take too long.

We welcomed your participation here and your assistance in clarifying these questions on Bill C-530. Thank you very much, and have a safe trip back.

Thank you, Mr. Bagnell.

This is a very short bill, so we'll proceed with clause 1.

[Some hon. members]

Yes.

[An hon. member]

On division.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I'm hearing “yes” and “on division”. I think for the purpose of this, unless there is unanimous consent, we should either get a show of hands or a vote. “On division” is something we see in the House regularly. If there's consent, we'll let it go.

(Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to)

Shall the title carry?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Shall the bill carry?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Shall the chair report the bill to the House?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll proceed accordingly.

Members, that is the last item we have on our orders of the day.

May I just take this opportunity before we adjourn to thank each of you for your participation these last few months. We all know that events in the next day or two may have us into a different type of campaign in the next few weeks. I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for your thoughtful presentations and interventions on the issues we have had here.

I also want to take the time to thank the people who support our committee, particularly Julie Pelletier, our clerk, and our analysts, James Gauthier, Daniel Lucier, and Shauna Troniak, who have done terrific service with the Library of Parliament.

Also, I want to thank the crew that actually staffs our meetings.

I wish to thank all interpreters, messengers as well as all staff members who helped us hold our meetings.

This is terrific. Members, we could not do this work without their continuing support. With that, I bid you well.

Have a good campaign in the next few weeks.

Mr. Bagnell.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I just want to reply. Mr. Chair, I think you've done an excellent job, and all the members of the committee. Some committees are not very functional. We've had our differences, but I think everyone on this committee has been very respectful. I appreciate that, and I think it's worked very well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

That's very true.

Monsieur Lévesque.