Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 7th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Colleagues, we'll call this meeting to order. This is the 63rd meeting of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development. Today, colleagues, you know that we are undertaking a review of both the main estimates as well as supplementary estimates (C).

Today we have the opportunity to have the minister here. This is the minister's first appearance before our committee. We appreciate his willingness to come on short notice, as well as this early in his tenure.

We appreciate that and recognize, Minister, that you have undertaken a fair bit to be here this morning.

We also, of course, are joined by Mr. Wernick as well as Ms. Swords. We thank you for coming again.

I will turn it over to you, Minister, for your opening statement. Then, of course, we'll undertake to have questions for the remainder of the hour.

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Chair, first of all, let me say that I am pleased to be here today and honoured that the Prime Minister has appointed me to the role and responsibility of aboriginal affairs and northern development. As minister, of course, I look forward to working with you, Mr. Chair, and all of your committee members in order to advance our, I'm sure, mutual desire to see healthier, more prosperous, and self-sufficient aboriginal communities across Canada.

As some of you may know, I had a limited but most exciting stint in this department back in the 1980s. I served as the minister of state for, in those days, Indian affairs and northern development, mainly in charge of the native economic development program. Coming back almost 20 years later—I was very young then—I am pleased to see and I acknowledge that much progress has been made since then from settling land claims and specific claims, to achieving self-government agreements, to increasing economic development both on an off reserve. There is clear evidence that aboriginal peoples are participating more fully in Canada's social and economic life. That said, however, I also acknowledge—the government knows and I know—that more critical work remains to be done.

Over the coming weeks, I will be meeting with aboriginal leaders and communities across the country, including aboriginal youth, to advance dialogue on our shared priorities. In my short tenure thus far, I have already had the opportunity to meet with a number of aboriginal partners, including the National Chief; Métis and Inuit leaders; and representatives from the Native Women's Association of Canada. I look forward to working together with all of our partners.

I want to assure you that our government’s commitment to creating jobs, economic growth and long-term prosperity doesn't stop at the door of aboriginal communities or of first nations. We want aboriginals to take full advantage of all the economic opportunities that Canada has to offer. That is why we are taking action to address remaining obstacles and structural barriers that are preventing aboriginal people from achieving their full potential.

For example, we have heard from first nations who have been calling for improved education systems. That is a fundamental issue, one that I feel is key. We are responding to those calls, just as we are responding to calls to ensure access to safe drinking water on reserve. We are taking action.

But we are not only committed to making these structural reforms, we are also committed to supporting these reforms with the necessary resources, but in a way that is responsible, of course, as well as transparent, strategic and targeted. I believe that committee members will see that this commitment is made clear in my department’s 2013-14 main estimates and supplementary estimates (C) for fiscal 2012-13, which is what I am here to speak to you about today.

The 2013-14 main estimates, Mr. Chair, forecast departmental expenditures of approximately $8 billion. That's a net increase of $178 million, and is 2.3% above last year's main estimates.

That increase, at a time of economic uncertainty and fiscal prudence and of our commitment to Canadians to reduce the deficit, and eliminate the deficit, reflects our government's unwavering commitment to improving the quality of life for aboriginal people and northerners and to creating jobs and economic growth.

I'm sure you all know that last year's economic action plan included increased funding for Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada in several key areas over the coming year. This includes more money for the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement and for the priorities we share with first nations, such as the first nations water and waste water action plan, first nations education, and other priorities. You can see this increased funding reflected in the main estimates.

Mr. Chair, I want to take this opportunity to maybe expand a bit on these items.

The main estimates include additional funds of $224.5 million for fiscal year 2013-14 to go towards the continued implementation of the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement. This includes additional funding for claimants under the independent assessment process and the alternative dispute resolution and common experience payment program. It also includes funding for the administration and research required for the government to continue to fulfill its obligations under the agreement.

As you know, the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement is court directed and agreed to by multiple parties, including legal counsel for former students, the Assembly of First Nations, and Inuit representatives. Our government, I can assure you, will continue to honour and respect the terms of the agreement.

The estimates also include $137.4 million for the First Nations Water and Wastewater Action Plan. Our government and first nations have a shared goal of ensuring first nations have the same access to safe, clean drinking water in their communities as all other Canadians.

Access to safe drinking water, the effective treatment of wastewater and the protection of sources of drinking water in first nation communities are critical to ensuring the health and safety of first nations. You may remember that Economic Action Plan 2012 included $330.8 million over two years to help sustain progress made to build and renovate water infrastructure on reserve and to support the development of a long-term strategy to improve water quality in first nation communities.

More specifically, this money is going towards training for operators of water and wastewater systems on reserve and capital investments targeted at the highest risk systems. And we are already seeing results. We have seen the number of high-risk water systems on reserve decrease by more than 8% and we have trained hundreds of operators through the Circuit Rider Training Program.

These resources are only one part of our government's comprehensive long-term plan to improve on-reserve water and waste water, which is founded on three pillars: one, enhanced capacity building and operation training; two, enforceable standards and protocols; and three, infrastructure investments.

Bill S-8, the safe drinking water for first nations act, is currently before the House, and is a critical step toward ensuring that first nations have enforceable standards for safe drinking water on reserve. I hope that this bill will come before the committee soon.

The last area I'd like to expand upon is the $115 million for initiatives to improve first nations education, which is also included in the main estimates. Our government goal here is to provide first nations students with a quality education that provides them with the same opportunities and choices as other Canadian students. By improving the graduation rate, we will ensure that first nations students have the skills they need to pursue additional education, or enter the labour market and become full participants in a strong Canadian economy.

Economic action plan 2012 committed an additional $275 million over three years to support first nations elementary and secondary education. This included new resources to build and renovate schools on reserve, and to support early literacy programming and partnerships with provincial school systems.

We know that money is not the only answer. That is why we are committed to making the structural changes needed to improve literacy and graduation rates and to ensure students have safe and secure learning environments. All of that will help pave the way for the development of a First Nations Education Act. As you are aware, this project is currently the subject of intensive consultations across Canada. This legislation will put in place the structures and standards to support strong and accountable education systems on reserve.

We are committed to working with first nations parents, educators, leaders and others to have a First Nations Education Act in place by September 2014. It is an ambitious goal, but I truly believe that we can reach it. I hope committee members will support us in these efforts.

I cannot ignore the reality that my department, Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada, must demonstrate fiscal prudence. As you know, the department’s budget will be reduced by $240.1 million over three years. Of that amount, $160.6 million will be ongoing annual savings starting in 2014-15. We have achieved these savings by identifying departmental efficiencies and streamlining operations while protecting delivery of essential programs and services to first nations and northerners.

Supplementary estimates (C) for the fiscal year 2012-13 also contain key initiatives totalling $36.9 million. This includes $20.6 million to address urgent health and safety pressures on first nations communities, especially as they relate to evacuations in northern Manitoba and Ontario due to forest fires, recovery from flooding in Saskatchewan, and floods and storm surges in the Atlantic region under the emergency management assistance program.

There is $12.7 million for the urban aboriginal strategy, to reduce the barriers to urban aboriginal peoples' participation in the economy.

Mr. Chair, these investments and initiatives I've outlined today will contribute to the progress we are making in addressing issues facing northerners and aboriginal peoples in Canada, and will enable them to take advantage of all the opportunities Canada has to offer. Our plans support the partnerships, advance our legislative initiatives, and set the stage for continued progress. I'm confident they will drive progress on important issues of concern to aboriginal peoples, and indeed to our country as a whole.

If I want to give you a chance to ask questions, I better shut up. At this time, I'd be pleased to answer any questions that members of the committee might have on the content of these estimates.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll begin our rounds of questioning with Ms. Crowder, for the first seven minutes.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, welcome to your new position and welcome to the committee. I was very pleased to note that you did support the NDP motion, which called on the government to invest in economic development and move forward on treaty implementation and on a full and meaningful consultation on key policy and legislation. I was very pleased to see that you supported the principle for that motion.

It's unfortunate today that we're being asked to deal with the main estimates without the department's plans and priorities. What we have before us is incomplete information, and it's going to be difficult for us to vote for the main estimates when we are being asked to consider information without that very important document on the plans and priorities. I would presume that the minister would be prepared to come before the committee once we get the department's plans and priorities.

As you know, we have limited time. I'm going to give you four questions, and I would ask that you reply in writing. For the last question, I'd like you to reply verbally. That has been past practice, and we've been very grateful that the minister and the department have been willing to do that.

One question we'd like a reply in writing on is, what are the department's plans? You noted in your speech that there is a 2.3% increase in the department's spending for this coming year, but in effect, there's been a 2% funding cap in place since 1996, despite the growth in the population. I believe the Auditor General indicated it was about 11%. I wonder if, in writing, you could provide the committee with what the department's plans are to address the population growth and move that 2% funding cap.

The next question to which I would appreciate a response in writing is with regard to consultation and policy development. In the main estimates, there is a decrease of approximately $18 million from the previous fiscal year with regard to contributions for the purposes of consultation and policy development. I wonder if the department could indicate how it intends to fulfill its commitments around consultation, especially with regard to a number of key pieces of legislation that are coming forward.

The main estimates have indicated there's a reduction of $40 million to the income assistance program. I wonder if the minister and the department could let the committee know how they're going to deal with the significant impact, which has been noted by a judge in New Brunswick, that reductions in the income assistance program will have on those communities that are already living well below the poverty line.

The last written response I would appreciate has to do with the status of the fiscal harmonization negotiations and how that's moving forward.

The question I'd like you to address before the committee today is with regard to first nations education. You've indicated in the main estimates that there's an increase of $115 million. I wonder if you could tell the committee a couple of things.

First of all, I understand there are seven consultations that are going to be taking place, or have started to take place, with regard to the new first nation education act. Is that the extent of the consultations, and how much is the department willing to change? I understand there were proposals put forward. How much are they willing to change the proposals they put forward in those consultations? How much of that $115 million will go into direct delivery of education in the classroom?

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

First, let's talk about the discussion guide.

As you know, this is as a result of working with aboriginal representatives and answering their call to address the concerns that have been raised not only by the AFN but by the Auditor General and others as to the mismatch or the state of these education programs.

The discussion guides advance us ideas to discuss. That is the purpose of the consultation. We don't have a piece of legislation in place. We want to develop this with the full input and participation of parents, of leaders—

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Can I just clarify? Our understanding of a couple of the consultations that have happened is that they have been presented with proposals and essentially been told to take it or leave it, to pick one of the proposals.

Are you indicating that's not the case, so that it's not—

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

No. Absolutely not. I assure you.

As a matter of fact we have an open door policy through our website for people who have ideas, if they care to and want to participate and offer views and ideas on how legislation can achieve the results that we hope and all agree are essential for the economic and social success of these aboriginal communities.

So, no. Not at all. If some people have reported that, I want to clear the record. Absolutely not. These consultations are meant to receive the input of those stakeholders who are mostly affected by this. There is no closed door here. Hopefully at the end of the process we can build on these ideas to propose a piece of legislation that will bring about the results we need.

In regard to the funds, there was $275 million announced in the 2012 budget for school infrastructure and programming. Of this, $115 million will be allocated in the 2013-14 fiscal year. I can give you the details.

There's $40 million for early literacy and partnership activities, $75 million in funding to support the commencement and continuation of priority school construction projects in communities.

Also on wanting to help ensure residents for the new first nations education system to be outlined in the legislation, budget 2012 invested $100 million over three years to provide, again, early literacy programming and other supports and services to first nations schools and students, and to strengthen their relationship with the provincial school system. There is $175 million over three years, as I said, to build and renovate schools on reserve.

So what—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Minister. I'll cut you off there. I apologize, but we've extended over the time.

Ms. Ambler, we'll turn to you now, for seven minutes.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and department officials, for joining us today to talk about the main and supplementary (C) estimates.

My questions, Minister, are with regard to first nations water and waste water management. The estimates we have here indicate, and you mentioned in your remarks specifically, it is a priority of this government to aid with self-sufficiency in this area. We've committed the necessary resources to help do that to the tune of $137.4 million to support the implementation of the first nations water and waste water action plan. We know that last year alone we supported over 400 water projects on reserve, and we're training expert operators across the country to ensure safe drinking water on reserve.

Could you please tell us a little more specifically about the $137.4 million that was allocated in budget 2012, and how those funds are being used and will be used?

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

As I indicated in my introductory remarks, the budget 2012 investment, this comprehensive long-term plan to improve on-reserve water and waste water, is founded on the three pillars I mentioned. Budget 2012 investment is to support improvements in each of these areas by increasing funding for on-reserve water and waste water systems operator training and operations and maintenance. When we talk about the risk, it is important, it is crucial, it is fundamental, that we have properly trained and qualified operators for these systems. That is one of the areas covered.

The other is trying to support the creation of regional hubs to monitor and, where feasible, operate systems remotely. Again this is to try to make the best use of limited funds in order to achieve better results. Also the budget will cover the minimum program requirements for the new circuit rider training program. Circuit riders provide on-site training and mentoring to on-reserve water and waste water systems operators and support first nations in the development of these regional hubs of expertise to serve communities in prioritizing capital investment to target high-risk systems.

As you mentioned, in 2011-12 the government supported 402 major and minor first nations water and waste water infrastructure projects. Two hundred and eighty-six are currently planned for 2012-13, and 2013-14 allocations are not yet finalized. We are in the process of doing that. To reduce risk ratings, 30% of the 2012-13 investment in water and waste water infrastructure projects is to address high-risk systems, and 47% is to address medium-risk systems. The first thing I asked was, if we have high risk and medium risk, why do we invest more in the medium risk? It's simply to avoid having them become high risk.

Few Canadians know that at all times according to the Water Chronicles, the non-governmental organization that tracks water-quality issues across Canada, there are between 1,380 and 1,420 water advisories across Canada, including 122 in first nations communities. This is not a problem that is particular to reserves. A lot of Canadian communities are affected by this problem. The bulk of the investment we are making is for these water and waste water systems.

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I also note that out of the allocations in the main estimates for this, the ratio of operations to capital is actually, to me, quite positive. We're talking about $10 million for operating and $127 million in grants and capital. I'd say that was sort of indicating an investment in structural changes, which I think will benefit first nations well into the future.

I'd like to ask specifically, Minister, about Bill S-8, the safe drinking water for first nations act, which as you also mentioned is currently going through the House and is almost at second reading. We hope to see that here at committee soon.

Can you tell us how Bill S-8 will help provide access to safe drinking water, and specifically how it relates to the funds allocated?

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Access to safe drinking water, effective treatment of waste water, and the protection of sources of drinking water on first nation lands are a priority for our government. The government and first nations throughout the country believe that first nation communities should have access to the same quality of safe, clean, and reliable drinking water as Canadians outside of first nation lands.

This bill would allow the government to work with first nations and other stakeholders to develop federal regulations for access to safe drinking water, to ensure effective treatment of waste water, and to protect sources of drinking water on first nation lands.

Provinces and territories have their own legally binding safe drinking water standards, and currently the federal government has no legally enforceable protections for first nations governing drinking water and waste water on first nation lands.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Minister. I'll jump in here. We just want to make sure that we keep our time frames for each of our colleagues. I'm sure others will go back to that.

Ms. Bennett, we'll turn to you now for the next seven minutes.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you.

Welcome, Minister, and we hope that you'll come back soon to build the relationship with this committee. Because today we are dealing with the mains without, as my colleague said, the benefit of seeing the plans and priorities, would you commit today to come back after we've seen the plans and priorities and the budget, so you can walk us through the decisions that the department has made?

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you for your kind words of welcome.

On the issue of the report on plans and priorities, I will ensure that it is tabled within the time prescribed. It is difficult at this time. I'm getting into this, so I don't know my time commitments, but the report on plans and priorities will, of course, be tabled, and if the committee decides to invite me, I shall surely consider such an invitation in light of my schedule.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Well, we hope that we'll see you again before the end of May so we can get on with a few of the specifics.

You've said both in your remarks and in your responses that safe drinking water is a priority, but that there are limited funds.

I'd like to hear from you about rebuilding the trust with aboriginal peoples in Canada. When do you think that 100% of first nation households in 100% of first nation communities will have access to safe drinking water and waste water treatment? Is there a strategy for what, by when, and how?

Your own department says that it's billions of dollars behind and requires a $1.2 billion investment urgently. I don't think you can do this by just tweaking around the edges. There has to be a goal of 100%, and then a decision on how long it will take to get there and how much money it will require.

Will it be two years, three years, or four years? When we will get 100%?

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I have no crystal ball that can enlighten me as to when all of these first nation communities will benefit from the kind of water system and waste water treatment system we're talking about.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Will you commit to going to see some of these places—

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Absolutely.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

—where there are 12 people living in one house and no running water, places where only 20% have running water if they happen to be on the footprint of the Health Canada building?

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

There's no question that I am fully aware of these communities, especially smaller, isolated communities that have these problems, but we have to be realistic, and we have to be practical. We have to find ways of ensuring that we can address, with the limited resources we have... Listen, if money were not a concern, we could of course commit—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Do you think it's okay that people live in third world conditions?

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Of course it's not okay, but you have to manage the problem, ensuring that you make progress. I think throwing money at it as the only solution would be a mistake.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

What we're saying is we don't think legislation is an answer if there aren't the resources to back it up.

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

When you look at the 633 first nations communities in this country, you will find many that will be able to solve that problem through economic development. It's not isolated.