Evidence of meeting #64 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was indian.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Mr. Chair, I could actually ask that my statements be read back into the record. At no time did I make any comment like that.
Conservative
Conservative
Rod Bruinooge Conservative Winnipeg South, MB
All I heard from Ms. Crowder was that Mr. Clarke simply has no right to introduce changes to an act that limits him in a way that she doesn't appreciate. I find that line of questioning quite ridiculous in light of the fact that he's trying to do something pretty important for first nation people. I just think a little more respect would be in order, for some who could—
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Respect is not about putting words in another member's mouth.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Order.
Ms. Bennett, it's not your time to question.
Mr. Bruinooge, would you direct your questions through the chair to our colleague, Mr. Clarke.
Conservative
Rod Bruinooge Conservative Winnipeg South, MB
Rob, when you were first elected to the House of Commons and you came to this hallowed place, I remember your telling me when you got here for the first time that your biggest interest was to see changes, in particular to see the Indian Act repealed.
How has your career progressed since that moment?
Conservative
Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Coming from an RCMP background and actually living and working on first nation reserves, I've seen the social and economic barriers that the Indian Act has placed on first nation communities.
I'm from Muskeg Lake First Nation. I know first-hand, as a first nation citizen and as a law enforcement officer, the kind of barriers this legislation has created for first nations.
One of the most painful things I had to do as an RCMP member was to enforce the Indian Act. I became a bylaw officer. I also became a truancy officer, going into people's residences and asking the parents to take their children to school. We talk about education being very important for first nations, but having to dictate it through the Indian Act isn't the right way to go. I want to see these barriers to success removed.
I remember having to do the enforcement, as an RCMP member, and that's why I'm looking at my private member's bill. One, I want to amend the bylaws, to empower first nations to form their own bylaws. Two, I'm trying to repeal outdated sections of the Indian Act, such as regarding agriculture, individuals who have the right to trade with first nations, and the residential schools clause, so residential schools can't be mandated by the minister or any future governments and don't happen again in Canada.
What I'm also trying to do is set up a legislative process for first nations on a year-to-year basis, consult with the government and look at more modern, respectful language that properly reflects today's society, and start a meaningful dialogue. Currently in the Indian Act there's nothing that requires the federal government to consult with first nations on a year-to-year basis. This is paramount, and hopefully this answers Ms. Crowder's question about consultation. What I'm trying to do is set up a legislative process that will bring the government to the table with the first nations. That's what I expect.
Conservative
Rod Bruinooge Conservative Winnipeg South, MB
You've met with many first nation people across Canada. Perhaps you could go through some of the provinces you visited.
Conservative
Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
I've travelled extensively as a parliamentarian under my limited House of Commons budget. I've travelled through Alberta, I've travelled through Saskatchewan, I've travelled through Manitoba, and I've travelled even into the Northwest Territories when we were doing parliamentary committee travel there.
From coast to coast, I've always asked first nation leaders and grassroots individuals what they think of the Indian Act, and everyone says to get rid of the Indian Act. But they always ask what we are going to replace it with. I'm not here to impose what we're going to replace it with. What I'm trying to do is provide a solution for first nations, and I'm asking what their solutions would be. That is why it's paramount to have a year-by-year review of the Indian Act.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you, Mr.Bruinooge.
We'll turn to Ms. Bennett now, for seven minutes.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Thanks very much.
We have grave concerns that this is a job that needs to be done by the Prime Minister. As the Prime Minister promised at the crown-first nations gathering, the government would not repeal or rewrite the Indian Act, and any future changes would be developed with consultation among the government, the provinces, and first nation communities.
Therefore, I am concerned that this is piecemeal. As you know, when the officials came before us, Rob, there were serious flaws with this bill in terms of bands not being able to declare their communities dry, and serious concerns around how wills and estates would be dealt with in Quebec.
Consultation requires sending and receiving. Could you please tell us whom you consulted with and what they said? All we've heard on this side are some serious objections to this bill, including people saying that they wanted to get unanimous consent just to withdraw it and start again, with the Prime Minister at the helm. Could you tell us the dates, also?
Rob, you have to accept that once it has passed second reading and comes to this committee, the ability to make substantial changes to it is very limited by this committee. And that doesn't qualify as full-scale consultation.
Unlike what you said, it is possible to consult on a draft bill. And it is possible to do this properly with any private member's bill, by getting out and actually listening to what people say, as opposed to going out and saying, “This is what I want to do. How do you like it?”
We were very concerned last summer that even when you presented to the FSIN, you refused to take questions from them. It seemed as though you were not in listening mode and that this bill had already been tabled.
So in the order of how we do things as parliamentarians—going out, and in aboriginal-style leadership, by asking, not telling—whom in the first nations community did you hear from? Who wanted you to make these particular changes in this particular manner, rather than it being led by the Prime Minister?
Conservative
Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Let me be very clear here. At the first nations gathering, the Prime Minister said that he was not going to blow up the Indian Act. That would have left a big hole in the ground. But the problem is that the roots are deep. He was going to look at incremental change to the Indian Act.
As a first nation individual, when I first had the bill drafted, my intention was basically to repeal the entire Indian Act. Having met with first nation leaders across Canada, especially in Saskatchewan—let me finish, Carolyn.
By meeting with individuals across Canada, there has to be—
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Rob, the question was, who did you meet with and what did they say?
Conservative
Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Let me finish, please, Carolyn. I have my talking time here, please.
You have to understand our culture.
Conservative
Liberal
Conservative
Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
When engaging with first nations and doing the outreach process, I met with grassroots members right from the very beginning, since I ran in the 2008 byelection.
Conservative
Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
When we talk and meet with individuals, especially across northern Saskatchewan, and also across Canada, I am also talking—
Conservative
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
I want a list of who you met with. If you're going to do proper consultation, you actually have to keep a record. Who did you meet with and what did they say?
Conservative
Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
I've gone through four different versions of my private member's bill. My original draft was drafted with the repeal of outdated sections in mind, and it progressed as I met with individuals and chiefs from first nations across Canada, including chiefs from Ontario, from—
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Just table the list. Who did you meet with and what did they say?