Evidence of meeting #7 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
And thank you, Chief Louie, and your colleagues, for coming here today.
This is great news. I'm going to move through some questions quickly, but like you, I'm all about the introductions. I just want to recognize Chief Jody Wilson-Raybould. It was nice to be out at the Penticton Indian Band cultural school opening. That was great. It was a bit of a homecoming for me. I did my nursing studies at Okanagan University and lived in Summerland. It's a beautiful place, and it was nice to be back.
I should also say, Chief Louie, that your being here today with your colleagues is most opportune. This committee has been moving quite effectively, I believe, toward looking at this priority, as we're hearing it from the Métis Nation, from AFN, and now, not just through the department, but through your organization. We're looking at a study around land use modernization, sustainable economic development, and I think the sustainable economic development piece necessarily brings in that environmental stewardship that you mentioned as the third point in the overview of what you're working on.
My first couple of questions, I hope, will have very brief answers. I may interject just to move it on. I apologize for that.
Just by way of review, the service you're providing the communities is to increasingly assist first nations, particularly and hopefully new entrants—I'll get to that in a second—with things like sample documents, standard templates. Are those some of the key functions?
12:05 p.m.
Chairman, First Nations Land Advisory Board
Yes, Mr. Rickford. Part of the responsibility of our resource centre is that support role. The precedent documents are collected, the laws that have been passed by first nations are regularly available, and each first nation across this country readily shares that. In my community, at Westbank, for example, we've met with—I don't think I'm too far wrong—maybe close to 100 first nations and provided information, legal documents. All of that is readily shared. So that is something that's supported by the resource centre.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON
Your comments with respect to KPMG are much appreciated by this government. In fact, we've recognized, and I believe you've had correspondence and discussions to this effect with the minister, that new entrants are the thrust of a lot of the work that's going to be done, in partnership with your organization. To that end we are looking at a significantly increased allocation over the next couple of years, as opposed to what it's been historically.
Is that your understanding?
12:05 p.m.
Chairman, First Nations Land Advisory Board
Yes, and I think evidence of that was the historical signing of the memorandum document on funding yesterday. It took us ten years to have some conclusiveness, to say that at least for the next four years we're going to have funding. It's very much appreciated, but I can only stress that it accommodates a very limited number; it doesn't accommodate everyone.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON
And I take your point on that. I appreciate that.
I want to talk about some of this capacity-building, accountability, and environmental stewardship, particularly with some deference to what this committee may very well be looking at. I'm talking about a constellation of emerging instruments, both policy and legislative, that are giving first nations communities an opportunity, and aboriginal communities, more broadly speaking, to accommodate some of the different kinds of circumstances, be they constitutional or otherwise, with respect to Inuit or Métis.
This constellation, Chief Louie, has come from taking a look at the legislative agenda and saying that first nations land management acts, B.C. treaty processes...a variety of things are saying loud and clear that land use modernization is the hot topic of the day. I want to go first to the capacity-building. The trained land managers that you're saying there's an ever-increasing need for, are they affiliated with any colleges or universities?
12:10 p.m.
Chairman, First Nations Land Advisory Board
Through the expertise we've been supported by, we have been connected to various universities and a lot of the curriculum that has been developed has been with direct access--
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON
Do they get certificates, Chief Louie, or anything? Is this something to build on? I went to law school and we fell in love with land use planning, for example. One of your colleagues has maybe already taken a course or is about to, but are these things that can take people farther in these regards?
12:10 p.m.
Chairman, First Nations Land Advisory Board
Yes. Accreditation is something that has been sought after. We are not in the position yet, because we don't have adequate funds to do that. I know my colleagues here have been working on this, and I'm sure we've got lots of thoughts. We can go into that further, if you wish.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON
Sure. We can talk more about that. It's something I'm always interested in when we're developing programs, to ensure, whether they're institutional certificates of some sort or not, that they're real tools for the people actually taking the courses to perhaps have the potential to platform from there.
For my next question, I think I'm going to go over the accountability piece, because I think you brought that out nicely. I want to talk a little bit more about this environmental stewardship. I think it probably has some environmental sovereignty issues, if you will. I'm going to use my last 41 seconds for you to talk briefly or highlight what, for our purposes, might be implicated by that in a potential study.
12:10 p.m.
Chairman, First Nations Land Advisory Board
First nations have the opportunity--and it's one of the needs for this amendment--to pass environmental laws. Now, in the passage of those laws, the first nations are the jurisdiction, the decision-makers. But in doing so, each first nation across this country has to be mindful of existing environmental laws, either federal or provincial. So the opportunity is there for the provinces to harmonize their laws. That opportunity exists. The standards that have to be met are, at minimum, to be not less than what Environment Canada provides.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON
One more quick question. Do you think we're on the right track as a committee in studying something like land use modernization and sustainable economic development? Is this the topic of the day in terms of the future of many first nations communities?
12:10 p.m.
Chairman, First Nations Land Advisory Board
I can only offer this in response. I'm not sure exactly the depth of the land use modernization. I can tell you the depth of what we're talking about in lands and management of lands. We know that it's absolutely essential. The jurisdiction, the law-making, the decision-making is extremely important. So things like land use plans, the importance of those and how you deal with land matters and environment and all of that, is extremely important. We have a process that provides for that.
I'm not certain. I'm afraid I don't know too much about what you're actually doing in land use modernization, but from our perspective this is how we see it. That is a very important matter, one of the most important matters for first nations in this country.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
October 20th, 2011 / 12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Thank you very much.
Just to follow up on the idea of land use modernization, I've crossed the country, and there are some people who are concerned that modernization might mean moving to a fee simple model. I think, Chief, your story is a good story. What I think we're hearing is a call to accelerate the process that's ongoing right now. I'm not sure what your interpretation of modernization would be. You are telling us a story of something that's actually working; it just needs to move faster.
What I heard is that with dollars for increasing capacity in terms of training, you would end up with more communities feeling they could actually apply to get into the queue, but that your signing yesterday allowed only 20 into the queue, and there are already 80 in the queue. So a barrier to accelerating this process has to do with a lack of investment dollars that would increase the capacity in your communities.
12:15 p.m.
Chairman, First Nations Land Advisory Board
Yes. Maybe I'll deal with your first point, modernization and so forth. If what's being looked at is a transfer from reserve lands to fee simple lands, the answer and response is no, that's not what this process is about. This process is about section 91.24, it's about the Constitution. It's about keeping that sphere of jurisdiction. We do not need to move into fee simple.
My community at Westbank is one of the points that shows to the country that we do not need to transfer our lands into a fee simple basis. It works very well. We've got literally every bank that exists in Canada basically located on our lands. We have financing available; we have things like land title insurance; we have things like the A-to-A leases that allow developments to take place. All of that is provided. As far as modernization is concerned, if it's fee simple, the answer is no.
On the other point that you made, the funding that we signed yesterday, my understanding is that 13 first nations are going to be supported, not 20. I wish I could say 20 or more, but my understanding is that about 13 are going to be added to the list.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
That's with 80 in the queue. And with a whole bunch more, if they had training capacity, they could feel that they were now perhaps able to think about it and get going on this.
I think you know that for me as a family doctor, Chandler's work is hugely important. We know that if land is sorted out, the health of the community goes up and the suicide rate goes down. This is step one in having healthy communities. Obviously, for us as a committee to feel that the more investments we could make in your process as a government, the faster we can move on creating healthy communities and having more communities able to tell the good story that you've been able to tell us today.
12:15 p.m.
Chairman, First Nations Land Advisory Board
Ms. Bennett, Mr. Chairman, if you allow, some of my colleagues are anxious to offer some comments. If Jody Wilson-Raybould could respond....
12:15 p.m.
Vice-Chief Jody Wilson-Raybould Assembly of First Nations, First Nations Land Advisory Board
Thank you, Chief Louie.
It's an honour to be here.
Maybe I could speak to the question that the honourable member and the parliamentary secretary raised regarding modernization and provide some reflection on what we're doing in terms of land management and the utility or usefulness of the proposed modernization study. For the first nations that are involved in the land management initiative, we have modernized in terms of what we're doing to create land tenure systems in our communities by building capacity in our communities and creating economic development opportunities.
Going back to previous questions about the investment or about how government can contribute toward our success stories, it's an investment for the government to provide the necessary resources for our communities to ensure the operation of communities, to ensure that we are continuing to move forward with instituting our laws and making decisions that are locally based, based upon the priorities of our communities. That's the beauty of this initiative. Our communities have decision-making authority and jurisdiction over what we're doing and how we want to develop our land.
If it's a land use modernization study that looks at the options available right now and at the implications of all the different options and the spectrum that exists—because there are a number of ways that first nations are raising title or undertaking land tenure systems in our communities—if that's the intention behind the study, rather than to reinvent the wheel of what's already created but to support the successes that our communities are having and to provide that information readily to other communities, then I think such an endeavour or information-sharing exercise would be entirely useful. To draw upon the experience of our chiefs here in the room, to hear their stories and build on the success that our communities have had in this area would be hugely valuable for us.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Could you help us with the language to describe the scope of a study that would be most helpful to you and also with the kinds of witnesses you think we should call?
12:20 p.m.
Assembly of First Nations, First Nations Land Advisory Board
Vice-Chief Jody Wilson-Raybould
I think that is entirely something that Chief Louie and the Land Advisory Board and the resource centre would be more than happy to do, given the enormous number of studies that have occurred over the last 20 or so years and the expertise that our chiefs and our communities could bring forward to that in putting together the parameters of such a study. I think it would be useful not to do what we've done in the past but to build on it.
12:20 p.m.
Chairman, First Nations Land Advisory Board
If I may, Mr. Chairman, I want to say to the honourable members that if they give us a chance, we'll be there.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
That's wonderful.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Rickford, you wanted to take the first 30 seconds of Mr. Payne's time.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON
I did, and then I'll turn it over to my colleague.
To be clear, folks, land use modernization is something I think this committee is interested in studying. Fee simple would have been something that my colleague would have used to satisfy her own intellectual curiosity. For us, land use modernization is exactly as you'd framed it, Chief Jody. I think we want to be able to support the successes and appreciate the resources, but I think for the benefit of committee members—as was pointed out earlier, there are new members to this committee--we want to understand the inventory and the way these success stories are working. That is how we'll gain a better understanding of sustainable economic development with respect to land.
I will turn it over to my colleague LaVar.
Thank you.