Evidence of meeting #11 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tribunal.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
This one from Berkeley, how does their funding work? Is it government funded or funded by private donations?
Director, University of Manitoba, National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation
They had an initial base that was funded by Steven Spielberg, so they tapped into some really big Hollywood money for this, which gave them a really significant head start.
It was one of the things that we talked about at the TRC. Where is our Hollywood north in all of this? I don't think we really have one in the same kind of way.
Now I think their funding is primarily foundation funding with a large endowment basically.
One of the things that we have explored in conversations with the federal government is the creation of an endowment for the centre. You'll see some of the calls to action, specifically the ones that talk about ongoing national frameworks for the measurement and monitoring of reconciliation, mention the establishment of an endowment fund that will give an agency the ability to protect itself from shifting political winds, perhaps, or up and down revenue streams, and all of that kind of stuff, because reconciliation has to be stable and something that's around for a very long time.
Creating these types of stable funding arrangements that will allow us to weather the storms that blow are very important.
Conservative
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
How much buy-in do you have from, say, first nation communities in terms of funding, or even survivors themselves? I know, just from my own life, there are things that I want remembered. I invest in them directly—local museums, and that kind of thing. I'm a member of them. Is there a membership? Can I purchase a membership in your organization? Are all survivors honorary members? How does that work?
Director, University of Manitoba, National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation
We are really operating in the public realm, so we have a direct and vested responsibility to provide this information back to survivors as part of a sincere gesture of reconciliation that really shouldn't or can't have a cost associated with it.
We have to remember that indigenous peoples generally remain fairly marginalized and disadvantaged in society, so it's not really a first stop that we would go for grassroots funding on this.
That said, there are potential cost recovery revenue streams that we certainly explore. For example, when we go to provide access to the Canadian Museum of History, one of the things that we're exploring is whether we need to put a researcher on specifically to dig records out of the centre, then there's a cost recovery model that we can explore there.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Andy Fillmore
Our next question is from Rémi Massé.
No, we're actually going to move to Gary Anandasangaree, please.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
Thank you both for the very hard work in getting this together and off the ground.
I know we've spoken extensively about the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and the call to action. What role do you play in ensuring that the 94 recommendations are monitored; the right parties are involved and engaged in implementing them; and reporting back to all of us on its progress?
Director, University of Manitoba, National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation
I did make some remarks in my opening statement about some preliminary work we're doing in this field to get some of the monitoring work off the ground. Of course, as we work through the start-up phase, we have a lot of responsibility on our plate. This is an area we want to grow into but perhaps are not able to fully realize quite yet.
Reconciliation is one of those things that needs to be a diverse and diffuse effort. It needs to happen organically. It needs to happen across all sectors. We have responsibilities as individuals, as organizations, and of course as a nation to engage in reconciliation. But careful conversations around where we are, where we need to go, and how we'll get there are absolutely essential. That means amassing important sets of information that we need to understand. You'll see some of that in the calls to action, and we're also laying the foundation for this through the centre.
Over-incarceration of indigenous peoples is a really important indicator of what is frankly right now still a broken relationship. Hopefully, as we see these gaps or overrepresentations start to decline, we can start to say something about reconciliation. But there remain a number of important indicators out there across the country that say we're not where we need to be yet. Graduation rates from high school, even entry into universities, and life expectancy, all remain serious issues.
We do feel we have a responsibility to keep an eye on this, but this is an area of growth that we need to grow into. Frankly, we're ready to do it. We have all of the irons in the fire. We just need a little more support to actually get there. Then we're off to the races.
Vice-Provost, Aboriginal Initiatives, Lakehead University
When we talk about the governing circle, that's part of what it is we do. We obviously have to monitor. There are a number of different areas.
I'm in education most of the time, and at that level I'm monitoring all the boards and the university presidents. I'm talking to them on a regular basis. I'm trying to make sure that the 17 principles they've tabled get put in place. I'm meeting with deans at different universities. I'm talking about indigenizing universities' curriculum.
A lot of the work on the ground that will be going on has to be done by us. Just getting those records in place and making sure they're safe is one job that the centre has. The centre cannot take on all the rest of these responsibilities without the assistance of other people and other dollars coming from other places. When we say that this reconciliation process is a Canadian process, we really mean that. It's not about aboriginal Canada doing this on its own.
We have a lot of responsibility that we take on to make sure this happens.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
In terms of the recommendations and the call to action, I occurs to me that there really isn't a body tasked with independently looking at how effective we've been and how much we're progressing. I know it's only been several months, but I think that this task should be undertaken by someone apart from government itself. I'm sure that government has its own process, but an independent body can be more objective.
I think you've probably answered the question, but is that something you are able to undertake? What is the extent of the resources you will need to do that?
Director, University of Manitoba, National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation
We feel we're fully able to undertake that. We're in the redesign of the NCTR's web presence right now. You will see in the near future an initial review of the calls to action and the monitoring effort of the calls to action.
In regard to what that will take, it certainly will take more staff than we have right now, and it will certainly take a lot of coordination as well. We need to get a number of tables set up that are actually feeding in the right information.
For this kind of thing, we need to get some of the people in the right room. We need to go through a full costing exercise on it. We need to get good people together to talk about it. But we feel fully prepped and ready to lead that conversation.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Andy Fillmore
The final question we have time for in this round is from David Yurdiga.
Conservative
David Yurdiga Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
The TRC is not only focused on the survivors, but also on the missing children who did not survive the residential school system. Can you describe the Missing Children Project, and can you describe some of the challenges faced in collecting this information?
Director, University of Manitoba, National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation
I'm pleased to say that last week we assembled a group of the researchers from all of the stages of the TRC's Missing Children Project here in Ottawa for an intensive one-day session on what needs to happen next.
There are three significant parts of the project we see as necessary to develop. There's some work we need to do that's right in our wheelhouse, namely, the establishment of the missing children database and online register, and the ongoing discovery of children who did not return home from the schools. That discovery process involves research within the collection, as well as dialogue with the community. That's an iterative and cyclical process that involves engagement, feedback, tips, and information going out.
At the same time, a significant issue that is facing us as a nation is the lack of identification of burial locations across the country. The preliminary estimate we have—and this is just preliminary, so don't take it to the bank necessarily—shows that there are somewhere between 300 and 400 locations where indigenous children were buried as a result of the residential schools. Many of these are unmarked, and many of them are at risk from sewer lines or urban development or redevelopment. This is a real concern.
The community can and must be empowered to have the opportunity to commemorate and to engage in ceremony or healing as they feel appropriate around the burials. That can and must be led by the community.
Some kind of program needs to be established to support them in that healing. That might take a simple form in some communities, of perhaps erecting a monument, or in other cases we have to be fully prepped and fully ready to think through and explore issues of repatriation, where we may be bringing some of these children home. In the case of Charlie Hunter, or for many in the Inuit communities whose children were brought thousands of kilometres south, this is a significant and pressing issue.
Conservative
David Yurdiga Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
To date, how many missing children has the TRC identified?
Director, University of Manitoba, National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation
I don't have the exact number at hand, but it's over 3,000 children.
To be honest, we have a lot of work to do still in uncovering and reviewing the records. By virtue of how the records came into the centre, and the massive onslaught and the timing around when these records showed up, the TRC was simply overwhelmed and wasn't able to review every single record it wanted to.
To frame things in a different way, we're still collecting records right now. We received a million records in December 2015 when the TRC was issuing its final report. There's a lot of information that we haven't reviewed, and we know there are going to be additional children whom we uncover in those records.
Conservative
David Yurdiga Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
I know that most families want to know how the children died. Is there any record of them dying from disease, from accidents, or whatever it may be? As a family member, I would want to know that.
Director, University of Manitoba, National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation
That information exists in certain instances. The TRC, in its initial missing children report, did indicate the nature of death and the reasons for death, but it doesn't exist in all cases. We also find that we don't necessarily have the names of the students in all cases. We have a certain number of named students that we can identify, and then there's a large number of students whom we know passed away in the schools, but we don't have their names. They show up slightly, where it's three students, for example, who died in the school, and that's it. It's heartbreaking.
Just to frame things, this is the severity of the history we're dealing with. We had one of our members from the governing circle come in, Eugene Arcand, and he gave real remarks. I have to say that when we have this conversation around missing children, it is just such an enormously heavy topic we talk about.
The elders talk about giving the opportunity for these children to come home because their spirits literally continue to walk this land in a restless state when they don't have family around them. It's really terrible. We have to approach this not just from a clinical perspective, but really with our hearts wide open to the severity of this history and the ongoing need for healing that we have in this country.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Andy Fillmore
Thank you both on behalf of the committee for travelling to Ottawa and sharing with us these incredibly important and moving comments. What you shared with us will be folded directly into our work plan, and we look forward to solid action in the future.
We'll suspend for a minute or two while we have a switchover.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Andy Fillmore
We'll resume now. Thank you very much.
It's my great pleasure to welcome to the committee today representatives from the Specific Claims Tribunal Canada. Specifically, we have Mr. Justice Harry Slade, chair of the tribunal; Madam Justice Johanne Mainville, tribunal member; and also Alisa Lombard, legal counsel with the tribunal.
We have 10 minutes for you to speak today. At about the nine minute mark, I'll raise my hand to indicate with one finger that there's one minute left, and at 10 minutes, I'll raise my hand as an indication for you to try to finish up. This is in the interest of maintaining fairness so that everyone has an opportunity to—
Justice Harry Slade Chairperson, Specific Claims Tribunal Canada
As long as it's that finger, Mr. Fillmore.
Chairperson, Specific Claims Tribunal Canada
Thank you for inviting us to attend.
I'll give you a little bit of my background. I practised in the field of so-called aboriginal law for about 27 years in British Columbia in something of a nation-wide practice. I was appointed to the B.C. Supreme Court in 2001 and to the tribunal initially in 2008.
The Specific Claims Tribunal Act represents something of a conversation between the Assembly of First Nations and the Government of Canada. The creation of an independent tribunal was a long time in coming—at least 30 years of that conversation. Members of the tribunal are drawn from the superior courts of the provinces and, in particular, British Columbia, Ontario, and Quebec. My colleague Justice Mainville is from the Quebec Court. The intent behind real judges becoming members was to ensure the independence of the tribunal. It was also important to the Assembly of First Nations and other indigenous stakeholders that we had a stand-alone department providing us with the full array of corporate services.
We got started in consultation with stakeholders to develop our process and rules of procedure. We had some early challenges, such as a lack of effective administrative support and concerns over institutional independence, but we managed to get the doors open in June, 2011. Thankfully, the concerns over direct administrative support were resolved in time, thanks to an extremely talented corporate head of our sole service provider, the registry of the tribunal, a government department under the ministry of aboriginal affairs as it was then known.
We have 76 claims in the inventory. Seventy are active. There have been decisions on the validity of 11 of those, and five more decisions are coming in the next week or two. I am not pleased with the pace of progress in the performance of our mandate. One can expect delays in building a foundation for the operation of a new adjudicative institution, but we've been hampered ever since mid-2014—actually earlier—by a chronic shortage of judicial members despite two annual reports in which I've indicated that the tribunal would fail if we didn't get an adequate complement of members.
Now 76 claims may not sound like much, when you consider the volume that goes through the courts, but we don't have back-to-back hearings in a single building. We take our hearings to the community of the claimant, and we all consider that to be extremely important given that part of our mandate is reconciliatory. It's important that the people who own the claim see who the decision-makers are and see the process that we go through, which, by the way, is informal relative to processes in court.
At present I'm the sole full-time member and we have a supernumerary judge, Justice Larry Whalen, Ontario Court, part-time. He's giving us more than he's required to as a supernumerary, and of course we have Justice Mainville who is on a six-month rotation in and out of the Quebec Court.
Today the Auditor General tabled a report relating to Governor in Council appointments, and we participated in the workup of that report. I've set out a number of the extracts from that report that tell the story of the frustrations we have encountered.
We have volunteers from the B.C., Ontario, and Quebec superior courts. A judge will volunteer, and if approved by the chief justice of that court, will be nominated by the chief justice. We have Justice Grist, B.C.; Justice MacDougall, Ontario; and Justice Mayer, Quebec, all waiting for appointments. They've been waiting for two years in some cases.
One major difficulty here is that chief justices are naturally reluctant to nominate members from their courts when their own judicial complements are well short of the required number. It took four years after the date I was first appointed for cabinet to give the B.C. court a judge to replace me. As I was a senior judge of that court, that was a serious matter. The B.C. court currently has nine vacancies. I don't know how many vacancies Quebec and Ontario have, but one can only be sympathetic with the concerns of the chief justices whose first responsibility is to ensure that the work of the court gets done. I think that needs to be addressed if we're to operate at a full complement, and it's independent of all these delays in the appointment of members to the tribunal.
I finally received a call from the chief of staff to the Honourable Carolyn Bennett last night, having written to her on April 15 to advise that I'd been invited here to speak about these very things. I'm now told that the three appointments will be made on an expedited basis. I was told this yesterday, May 2, on the eve of my appearance here.
The simple fact of the matter is that there are just a few judges are nominated for membership on the tribunal, for reasons that I generally canvass. All qualify, as they're sitting judges. At this time, they represent the pool from which judges are to be appointed to the tribunal.
There's no personal benefit to a judge who takes an appointment to the tribunal. We continue to receive our remuneration and benefits as if continuing full time as judges of the courts. So there's no difference, other than the burdens of travelling all over the country and spending time in Ottawa, which is a hard sell to judges who live in Vancouver, for a lot of obvious reasons.
I'm going to ask my colleague, Justice Mainville, to speak of the challenges in the Quebec court around appointments.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Andy Fillmore
We may have to hear some of that through the questions, as just a minute remains.