Evidence of meeting #121 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was north.
A recording is available from Parliament.
October 15th, 2018 / 3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Thank you.
Thank you for coming. It's certainly a really important topic that we're focusing on today.
I'm going to start with infrastructure. In your budget 2018, we're hearing about these vast needs.
There was a note that the $450 million that was expected between 2018 and 2023 is now being delayed until after 2022. How do you align this vast need with the commitment by the government? Now you're just going to delay it. It sounds like there's no shortage of projects, so can you tell me why that money is getting delayed until 2022?
Sean Keenan Director General, Economic Analysis and Results, Infrastructure Canada
I'm assuming you're talking about the re-profiling of funds from—
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
In Budget 2018, there is a footnote deferring a lot of expected infrastructure dollars for building roads and broadband and reducing dependance on diesel fuel.
Director General, Economic Analysis and Results, Infrastructure Canada
That money is not lost—
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
No, but it's delayed until.... I guess I'm just hearing about this urgency. I'm hearing about a lot of projects that are ready to go, programs that are oversubscribed, and then all of a sudden a promise is not being followed through in terms of the time frame.
Director General, Economic Analysis and Results, Infrastructure Canada
With respect to the way the infrastructure funding flows, Infrastructure Canada has developed this plan. One of its centrepieces, from our point of view, is our investing in Canada infrastructure plan. It's $33.1 billion over 10 years, and we've negotiated integrated bilateral agreements with each of the provinces and territories to spell out the terms of that plan. Essentially, that provides to them some predictable funding they can then use to develop their plans. The projects originate in the local communities, and at the provincial level.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Really, it's about the $450 million that was originally promised and that the government has since determined will come after 2022. It certainly should be a concern to northerners, because they were promised a certain amount of money.
The next question I have is a bit unusual. The issue with the border crossings.... There was a TV news report that there were heated tents being put up at the border to deal with the people crossing illegally from the U.S. I had a number of calls from people in Iqaluit saying that if they can do something for housing, even if it's temporary.... Their need is so desperate. How should I respond to these people who are saying that the government is responding to a crisis, an emergency, at the border, but it's not looking at what's happening up in the north as being the same? I didn't have a good answer for them. They were saying that even temporary heated tents, those army tents, would do something for them.
Is there anything I can say back to these people who were phoning my office with that? Do you have any suggestions?
Director General, Economic Analysis and Results, Infrastructure Canada
I'm not sure I'm best placed to comment on that.
Director General, Northern Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
The only thing I would say at this point is that housing in the territories, as in the provinces, is under provincial and territorial jurisdiction. We do enter into formula financing arrangements with the territorial governments that provide for housing.
Certainly what we've heard in our engagement with northerners is that there is a need for innovative approaches to housing and housing construction. In all the round tables we've held in each of the jurisdictions, we haven't come across any expressions of concern about heated tents as a possible solution.
The key, moving forward—and that's one of the messages we hear time and time again in our process—is that whether it's housing, food security or infrastructure, the notion of acting alone is gone, and we need to partner with federal, territorial and indigenous governments to go forward.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Thank you.
I guess they were seeing an urgent need being responded to in the south, and they were not feeling that same sort of response to what they perceive as an urgent need.
Mr. Walsh, when the government was introducing its plan for a carbon tax, it said that the northerners would be extremely impacted in a way that people in the south—whether they live in Vancouver or in Ottawa—would not. There was a commitment by the government at that time to the territorial governments to make accommodation. Is that plan in place yet?
Director General, Northern Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I'll have to get back to the committee on that. The details around the carbon tax and its implementation lie in other departments. I'll certainly endeavour to provide feedback once I reach out to my colleagues.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Thank you.
Mr. Presutti, are there any communities out of the 200 that are off diesel yet?
Director General, Electricity Resources Branch, Department of Natural Resources
No. We haven't funded any projects yet. It's still early days in the program. We've received applications, and we're reviewing the applications. We've shortlisted about 40 of them, and we'll be moving ahead with the projects. None of the—
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
When do you think our first community might cut the ribbon and say, “Diesel's gone”?
Director General, Electricity Resources Branch, Department of Natural Resources
Well, getting communities completely off diesel is a particular challenge. A lot of the projects that we'll be moving forward on will be about reducing diesel dependency, just because, as I mentioned earlier, bringing wind and solar into communities is a variable form of energy. In a lot of instances, we're looking at projects that are hybrid systems, where there is still some dependency on diesel for backup generation combined with technologies such as wind and solar.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Perhaps this is going to be more about infrastructure. We have all recognized the importance of good broadband coverage in the north. Where would you say we're at? Are we at 60% or 70% of the population? What percentage of the population has appropriate broadband coverage? How much would it cost to get that in place?
Director General, Program Integrations, Infrastructure Canada
We don't have that data at this point. On the $33 billion that we just launched for the IBAs, the integrated bilateral agreements.... They have just been signed. Now we're expecting provinces and territories to prioritize the projects and provide us the projects themselves. In terms of statistics on how many people are or are not connected, this is not something we have.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
I thought there was a significant mapping job done around broadband. Was that not done throughout the country?
Director General, Program Integrations, Infrastructure Canada
We have a map of what projects we're funding at this point. I'm not sure we have statistics on the....
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
So we have no idea of the percentage of the population in the north that doesn't have adequate service or any service.
Director General, Program Integrations, Infrastructure Canada
We can consult with our colleagues. They are in the department that would have that information. We can maybe get back to you.
