Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 5th, 2018

[Dominique Girard]

For our Meadowbank project in Nunavut, in fact I don't think we've paid tax, because we've never made money on that one. We did a writedown of $1.2 billion on this, and we're still creeping up from that.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

You don't pay corporate tax, but all of your workers pay income tax, and probably very generous amounts.

[Dominique Girard]

Yes. There's going to be $66 million in payroll paid to Inuit when we have both projects.

I know we're going to pay over $4 million to the Nunavut government in property tax. There are 2,000 employees with salaries of over $100,000 per year, and all of them are mainly coming from Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Brendan, did you want to work on that question?

[Brendan Marshall]

Yes. I could provide a bit of supplemental information.

There's a common misperception in the industry that the greatest value that a company can bring is through tax and royalties. The reality is that 80% of the value that companies generate on average, according to our studies, is through procurement.

MAC does a study annually on...I think it's 12 companies with 60 operations. I don't have the data for this year, but last year I think it was that over 90% of the wealth generated was through local procurement, and 80% of that procurement is done in the host country, oftentimes as close to the local communities as possible.

While we can talk about the importance of tax and royalties, which are important, there are significant other wealth generation opportunities that mining operations bring.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

My second question is to the Mining Association of Canada.

You indicated that the Canada Infrastructure Bank funding model would not perhaps be the best model for Arctic infrastructure programs.

Do you see that it could be amended in some way, or are you talking about a separate fund to be created? You could maybe give us models for both.

You only have 30 seconds.

[Brendan Marshall]

Sure.

Very quickly, I don't think it's possible to amend it easily, because the CIB was designed to attract private dollars with public investment. Dollar for dollar, you're not going to get as high a return in the north as you are in the south. We just heard that.

There's a reason the north isn't built—it's because it's very expensive. If we want to build the north, we have to design a fund that recognizes Arctic realities, speaks to them, and allows investment to move forward on that basis. It has to be independent. It has to be distinct.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

I need to give up our time, but if you have anything specific, send it in for the committee. We might be able to use it in the report.

Questioning now goes to MP Cathy McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, witnesses.

I need to take a minute before I get into my questioning, because I think it's critical. I gave a notice of motion the other day. It is very time-sensitive because of the ability to get information back. It was looking in the BIA, that massive 802-page document. Within it there are actually three stand-alone bills. They are the First Nations Land Management Act, the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, and the addition of lands to reserves act.

I was simply suggesting that our committee.... The finance committee cannot do due diligence. If you look at Bill S-3, you see there were lots of challenges with Bill S-3, and it took the work of a committee that knows the file to do the job to make sure that this was appropriate.

It's a simple motion. I'd ask that we quickly vote on it so that we could get to the important business of the study we're doing. As I say, it's our committee, doing our due diligence, around three pieces of legislation embedded into a BIA. I want us to at least be cognizant of what's happening and be able to make recommendations. I'd like to move that.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

All right. I have MP Viersen and MP Bossio. Let's try to keep our comments really tight because of course we have guests here to talk about infrastructure.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thanks, Madam Chair. I'd like to support my colleague's motion here for sure.

One thing I'd really like to hear about from the officials is how this got into the BIA, where it came from. It wasn't mentioned in the budget whatsoever, and so it seems to have been kind of sprung on us. I looked through the 800 pages and had a look at some of these things. They look like good pieces of legislation.

The other thing is that I haven't had a chance at all to interact with some of the first nations in my riding that this will affect. I know several of them are trying to add lands to their reserves. I wanted to know if this was going to be helpful to them. It would be nice to hear from them at this committee.

I ask my colleagues to definitely support my colleague's motion here.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Go ahead, MP Bossio.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

As much as I respect my colleague Mrs. McLeod, on her motion, my own personal view is that we have a lot of great subjects that we want to discuss as a committee, and the clock is ticking. The finance committee is going to study this bill and all the aspects of it. None of it was referred to our committee as it was to other committees. I'm on the environment committee, and a number of very specific issues were referred to that committee.

I don't want to take up a lot of time and I'd really like to get to the questions again, so I will not be supporting that motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Go ahead, Mrs. McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you.

I found it very strange that finance did not refer it to us, which makes me even more worried about what they're trying to hide in these 802 pages. With that, I would like to call the question if we could, and we will move on to the questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Okay.

(Motion negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I would like to share my time with Mr. Waugh.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Go ahead, MP Waugh.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you.

I was up at Meadowbank in January and February. Thank you, Mr. Girard. You weren't there at the time, nor was Ms. Desrochers. It was -65°, but that's beside the point.

How much money did you spend on that 110-kilometre road?

[Dominique Girard]

Up to now, we have built 200 kilometres of road in Nunavut, so we have the longest road. It is approximately $1 million per kilometre, so it's $200 million.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Has there been any federal government money?

[Dominique Girard]

Zero. It was all on our own.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Your company has paid the bill on this road. How much was it again?

[Dominique Girard]

It was $200 million.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

It was $200 million.