Evidence of meeting #129 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was project.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Engineers Canada
Remember, our association is an umbrella association of the regulatory bodies, so the regulatory bodies would probably take enforcement or disciplinary actions if somebody were found to be practising engineering where they were not licensed.
David, can you think of any specific examples?
David Lapp Manager, Globilization and Sustainable Development, Engineers Canada
Not offhand, but we can look into that with our regulators.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
How many know about the Arctic? How many actually come from there and can have their A game?
President, Engineers Canada
We have two territorial associations that regulate engineering, in both the Yukon and in Yellowknife—
Conservative
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
Okay, so you have two of the three areas.
Keep going, then.
President, Engineers Canada
Yes, that's right. They're fairly small memberships.
President, Engineers Canada
I would guess they have fewer than 500. Typically, though, they're also licensing engineers from other provinces. There's a lot of mobility among engineers between the provinces. They may be engineers who are residing in the territory or they may be engineers who are coming in to complete an infrastructure project and need to be licensed in that territory.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
Okay. How many are specialized? I guess that's what we're looking at, because you have all these projects being talked about in these areas.
President, Engineers Canada
We're providing some training right now on the PIEVC protocol. I'll turn to David to talk about that.
Manager, Globilization and Sustainable Development, Engineers Canada
Yes, we're giving protocol training to a number of engineers who reside in the north. We've probably done in the order of a couple of hundred, because we've done a series of workshops over the years. As Annette mentioned, there are also engineers who are located in the southern provinces but work in the north. They do field projects in the north—that sort of thing—so we get them familiarized as well.
We have probably trained a couple of thousand engineers in the protocol across the country, and we have about 20 companies in the consulting world that have worked with the protocol and then applied it in their work around design and construction—that sort of thing.
I have one little side comment. I am an engineer who has worked in the north for more than 20 years, even before I was at Engineers Canada, so I have a great love of the north. I worked at the Nanisivik Mine. I worked up in Resolute and up at Canarctic Shipping when they were shipping out of Nanisivik, so I have a pretty good grasp of some of the issues of the north as well that I can bring to the table.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
Is there an education facility up there for engineering, or is it all done in southern Canada?
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
Okay.
I want to turn to the Yukon Chamber of Commerce. I want to congratulate both of you on the maps. We've had a number of groups through here in the last two to three weeks to talk about Churchill—Murad Al-Katib and so on. It looks like the railway's okay for the next month or so. We're not sure, but they had the big announcement up there last week.
Let's talk about Churchill. Part of the problem, if you don't mind my saying so around this table, is that all of a sudden you have people pushing Churchill, and then you are pitching Yukon and wanting a different area. You understand the money difficulties that we have in both parts of the north, and while some are promoting Churchill, we've also heard about Whitehorse and up through Fairbanks as another one with LNG. You've talked about hydro, which, quite frankly, doesn't seem to match the cost, whether it's from Manitoba or from British Columbia. I think it's a fallacy that hydro is coming up north any day soon.
Just talk about the north, if you don't mind, both of you. Let's start with you, Kells. We have the icebreakers here. We're not sure that they have enough icebreakers up north right now to accommodate what some of your maps show.
Vice-Chair, Transportation and Infrastructure Committee Chair, Yukon Chamber of Commerce
That's the whole point.
From my perspective, there has to be a focus on the Arctic coast that we haven't had before. We've always had the Northwest Passage, but it's been ice-blocked. Now the ice is melting. That doesn't mean you can just go through with any kind of ship; you still need an icebreaker to escort you, because the melting ice breaks off into bergs or bits or smaller chunks of ice that you still have to get out of the way of large ships.
Icebreaking is a big part of that. You can't send the icebreakers up there, much less the Canadian Navy Arctic offshore patrol vessels, without some way of replenishing short of Nanisivik. Nanisivik's in the eastern Arctic and this Arctic seaway extends all the way past the coast of Alaska.
That's our message. There's an emerging Arctic seaway through the Northwest Passage that's now becoming navigable on an extended basis.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
I'd agree with you.
Grays Bay and Tuk were here. Iqaluit is also struggling with its new port. Give us insight on how we deal with this. First of all, it's such a vast area up north, right? Where should we direct our attention?
You've got a great map here, but I can tell you right now that we can't service what you've shown us. Give me one project that we need to go forward with.
Vice-Chair, Transportation and Infrastructure Committee Chair, Yukon Chamber of Commerce
With respect, that's exactly what I don't want to do. We recommend a pan-territorial corridors coordinating agency that would look at what's best for the whole of the territories, not just at the politically attractive project of the moment for an individual territory.
I could select a project—King Point is a great project for you to fund—but the real point is to step back a bit and look at all the requirements of this emerging seaway and the economic development of the north and see what makes best sense by looking at the whole of the territories across the north in terms of the infrastructure investment you require and the money you need. Canada may not have the money that we need for that sort of investment. Well, there are other options.
As I mentioned, you can't get across the coast of Alaska—there's no place you can find deep water, and they will need it—until you get down to Dutch Harbor and the Aleutians. Why don't we talk about maybe joint venturing with the United States to develop some of these projects and take some of their money? They have an equal concern with some of the ships that will be coming through there.
The Chinese have what they call the Arctic Silk Road. They want to invest in circumpolar infrastructure to support their international waters in the Arctic around research activities. They're doing that in Russia. We could accept some of their money, or maybe that compromises our sovereignty.
The conversation has to be there. How do you fund expensive projects in the Arctic that benefit the international community but are in our sovereign waters? That's what our recommendations on the last page are all about.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you all for being here.
I'm going to start with the engineers. I think it's called the PIEVC protocol. Did I get it right?
