Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 14th, 2019

[Jean-François Tremblay]

It's hard to know over the short term. Over the medium term, for sure, we think we'll see a reduction.

I mentioned the health case in B.C. When we transferred to the First Nations Health Authority, we basically closed the regional offices, which meant a lot of jobs. That is something we are going to have to look at.

If we do the same thing in other regions, the consequences will be the same. If I remember well, we transferred some health services, nursing services, to a tribal council in Saskatchewan. That means the transfer of some positions. We do that. Depending on the size of the transfer, there will always be—

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Is that a “yes” to reduction in numbers?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

It's a yes.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Are we just expanding the indigenous side and expanding—

[Jean-François Tremblay]

You have to take into account also the size of the initiatives at the moment. It's hard to reduce when you create more and more initiatives. We've received a significant amount of money over the last few years, so you always need some people to manage it. If it isn't transferred and you get an increase in funding—

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Have those additional investments helped make a difference in building this relationship?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

Yes.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Has that been a significant aspect to it?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

Yes.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Without it, you wouldn't have been able to have this changing relationship and changing thinking, seeing the future differently, things differently and ourselves differently.

[Jean-François Tremblay]

You have to walk the talk. If there is no funding that comes with the change in the relationship, it would make it difficult.

For example, on education, when I talked about the funding formula, if we were negotiating a funding formula with the funding we had four years ago, it would have been harder. However, the fact that there was an injection of funds at the same time makes it more credible and builds up the trust relationship that you mentioned before.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Thank you.

Next is MP Cathy McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Again, I will note that Bill C-97 sounds innocuous enough; and part 4, division 25, sounds as though it's just a little piece. Division 25 is 33 pages.

Therefore, first of all, I would like to make a motion that we invite the Métis National Council, the ITK and the AFN, and I know our time is short, but that we ask them to make comment and to submit their comments to this committee for consideration.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

There is a motion on the table. Is there any discussion?

Mike.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Is that not already occurring with finance? I thought finance was doing all the consultations. I don't have a problem with them sending a brief to the committee on their views. It would be totally open for any group to do that, regardless of what motion we vote on here. I certainly don't have a problem with inviting them to submit something, but to have them come to testify, I just don't want to delay this bill getting back to the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Cathy.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Madam Chair, I don't believe there is any delay. I believe if we do not send a letter to finance, it's deemed. There is a deadline for a delay from this committee back to finance, but there is nothing that would delay the consideration by the finance committee of our input into the legislation.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Is there interest in suspending for five minutes?

No. Okay.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Once again, we don't have a problem at all with them sending in a written submission to the committee, but we're not in favour of having a meeting to have them attend. What's the purpose if it's not going to actually inform the bill itself?

If you're saying it's going to be referred back, it's going to be referred back. As I said, I don't have a problem with there being a written submission, but beyond that, I personally don't think it's necessary.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Ms. McLeod, is there a desire to amend your motion?

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Madam Chair, the finance committee is looking for recommendations from us. It might be as clean as no recommendations, or it might be a recommendation to do x, to perhaps make changes and suggest amendments to the finance committee.

To be frank, the finance committee has a massive bill in front of them. They are not paying detailed attention to this issue. It is our responsibility to do the best job we can in order to make recommendations to finance on this issue. As you know, it will be up to the finance committee to determine whether our recommendations are something they support or do not support.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

MP Ouellette.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

As a member who sat on finance committees for a number of years, I can tell you that the consultations for the pre-budget are often very extensive. In this case, I believe over 2,000 submissions were made. There were hundreds of witnesses and hours and hours. They usually sit all week, often from early in the morning until late at night. National indigenous organizations are often called to testify; in fact, they are always called to testify and offer their witness statements, and their testimony is collected. I believe that goes to the finance department, and the finance minister then has a discussion reviewing that information.

In this case, if we're going to miss a deadline, and this information needs to be in by a certain time, I'm not sure what purpose it would serve. I suspect that the Métis National Council would be in favour of this. We could ask the witnesses here if they've had discussions with the Métis National Council. In those discussions, as well, we could ask about their discussions in the consultations with indigenous peoples and what their feedback was in relation to the split in relation to this budget bill, since we have these witnesses here. As these are civil servants who serve the Canadian public, I believe their testimony would probably also be truthful and very useful to informing us on what direction we should take with the bill.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

All right.

I believe that concludes our discussion on the motion.

All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed?

Didn't Ms. Fry vote?

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

I abstained.