Evidence of meeting #150 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was services.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
I guess I'm one of those that you were talking about, Mr. Tremblay. I still keep going back. I'm going to ask the education question. Who designed the funding formula and what is the funding formula?
10:10 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services Canada
The funding formula was designed in collaboration with the AFN and the regional education committee. We tabled it at the regional level. It was intensive work for more than a year, if I remember well.
The formula is based on what the provinces provide, so to make sure there's a comparability with the provinces. In addition to that, there's funding for languages, something like $1,600 per student. This funding is there for more capacity and special education, and especially for early childhood and kindergarten. That's basically the formula.
The formula is expected to evolve. It's a preliminary formula, so it may change in the future. We're testing it now. It will evolve, depending on the funding from the provinces and depending on the needs on the other side. It is actually significant. It supports us and helps the discussion, because if you agree on the formula, the questions become more about how to maximize the use of this funding to actually achieve the outcomes. We kind of eliminate from the equation one of the key aspects of the discourse and the debate around education, so it's quite helpful.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
Some of our school divisions on reserve have agreements with the municipalities. How does that work? We had a witness here from Saskatoon who said they weren't entitled to any of the grants for languages because their kids are not on reserve. They're being bussed into, in this case, Saskatoon, Stonebridge. All of a sudden, that funding for languages is taken away.
10:15 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services Canada
We met the same chief. It is an issue that has been raised, the fact that the funding for language is related to the first nations education system, not the provincial one.
Some people have an agreement with the province—the education system, the schools, are actually provincial schools—but the funding for languages is not going there. It is something that has been raised and will be the subject of discussions over the next few years.
It's a formula; it's not a definitive formula. The dialogue will continue. We're always looking at ways of improving this, but it's clearly something we heard. Our objective was to promote first nations languages in first nations schools, but I recognize it's one of the issues we've been hearing about.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
That same chief said that CMHC funding in the province of Saskatchewan is down 15% this year. Both of you have talked about housing, and here it's down 15%—not only for him, but also others in my province. That is a huge issue—it's maybe the most important issue of all when we talk to communities. It's housing. Here they are down 15%.
10:15 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services Canada
Yes, it's CMHC dollars. We don't want to comment necessarily on their budget, but I get the same comments on infrastructure and budget. You have to look at it over the years. Sometimes it depends on the building, on the construction, especially on infrastructure. It happened, for example, with water in our case. With bigger projects, the first few years will get less funding than places where the projects are smaller, because it takes more time. I don't know exactly the situation in Saskatchewan, but it may have been a case where the funding at CMHC has to be looked at over the years and not necessarily in one particular year.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
It's hard to budget, though. You can see where these chiefs are coming from, right?
10:15 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services Canada
That's why we're trying to move to 10-year agreements. That's why we're trying to move to situations where they have a sense of what the amount of money will be. We can always debate whether it's enough or not, which is a normal discussion to have, but you have to have predictability in funding to be able to plan.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
How many are on 10-year agreements? Did you say 85?
10:15 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services Canada
I think it was 84, 85, the last time I looked.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
10:15 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services Canada
We begin at the beginning of the year, so it would be difficult for them to join during the middle of the year—
10:15 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services Canada
—but it would be interesting to see if we're going to have a second wave of first nations going into grants next year. There's no limit. If they qualify, if they demonstrate that they have the capacity, the financial plan in place and the tools, there's no reason for us to say no.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
Thank you, Mr. Waugh.
Now I'll get to ask a question. My question—and I'm sharing time with MP Ouellette—relates to social assistance, and if there's been discussion about transferring the authority over those funds to make a direct allocation to communities rather than having it come from the federal government.
As a case in point, we have a reserve in Manitoba where individuals with a CMHC mortgage are eligible to receive social assistance. If the band was fortunate enough to build a house on their own and carry the mortgage, those families, if they go through a period of unemployment or financial difficulty, would not be eligible. If the band had the choice, they would probably make a different choice.
Is there interest in moving that kind of bulk funding or direct grant to communities rather than having the federal government decide?
10:20 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services Canada
The ones who are under grants can do that.
10:20 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services Canada
As far as I remember, the ones who are under grants—and I will check just in case I was wrong—receive core funding that includes social assistance. That means they have the capacity to reallocate or spend in a different way if they want.
10:20 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services Canada
You're right. We're hearing from chiefs and from communities that would like to use social assistance differently. The grants or self-government, of course, would give them that flexibility.
We have been engaging with first nations on a review of social assistance and how we can provide that capacity, how they can use it for more active measures, if I could say, like provinces have been doing. We've been trying to do so too, with some success to be fair.
However, the ones on the grants are receiving social assistance funding, if my memory is right, which gives them the flexibility.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
I am wondering about the number of indigenous employees in the last few years. Have you seen an increase, decrease, and what do you see into the future?
10:20 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
As I recall—I don't have the numbers immediately at hand—it's over 20%.
I think you said 26% or 28% in your—
10:20 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services Canada
Yes, it's probably 26% to 28%.
10:20 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Ours is a little bit lower than that, but it's in that realm.