Evidence of meeting #6 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was going.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Hélène Laurendeau  Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Andy Fillmore

Order, please.

Welcome, Minister Bennett, and thank you very much for joining us today.

Joining the minister are her departmental officials: Françoise Ducros, senior assistant deputy minister of policy and strategic direction; Hélène Laurendeau, associate deputy minister; and Paul Thoppil, CFO of the department. Thanks very much for joining us.

The minister and departmental officials are here pursuant to the motion we adopted at committee on February 23, 2016, to invite her and hear about the mandate and supplementary estimates.

I'm going to take a moment to describe the flow of the meeting today.

We are going to begin with an opening statement from Minister Bennett that will cover both the mandate letter and the supplementary estimates. The remaining time in that first hour, up until 4:30, will be used for questions from committee members. We'll follow the speaking order and time allotments as illustrated in the routine motion.

At 4:30 I will suspend the meeting for a moment, people can have a breath and a glass of water, and we'll resume within a minute or two with questions on the supplementary estimates. At that point we will return to the top of the order and start again with the same speaking order and time allotments.

Without wasting anymore time, Minister Bennett, I invite you to please share your thoughts today.

3:35 p.m.

Toronto—St. Paul's Ontario

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett LiberalMinister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's good to be back to this committee, in a slightly different role, but it is important that we always acknowledge that we're here on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin people.

We're here to present the department's supplementary estimates (C) for the 2015-16 fiscal year and to discuss my mandate letter.

I am joined by Hélène Laurendeau, the associate deputy minister for Indigenous and Northern Affairs, soon to become the deputy, for which I think we all congratulate her. It's very exciting. We also have the senior assistant deputy minister of policy and strategic direction, Francie Ducros. Many have seen her at this committee a number of times. We also have our chief financial officer, Paul Thoppil, who will take all the tough questions.

It's exciting. Andy, congratulations as the new chair, and congratulations to David as the vice-chair and to all of the new committee members. I'm particularly thrilled that Georgina and Romeo are here this afternoon. That makes this visit even more important to me. Thank you for bringing your knowledge to this meeting.

I look at the work of the other members. We have Don from Thunder Bay; Gary with Rouge River Park; Mike with Tyendinaga; Michael with the whole of Northwest Territories; and Matt, who, of course, has this huge responsibility of representing Fredericton, which was the riding of Andy Scott, whose big shoes I fill, and who is a mentor and my best friend here on the Hill. I thank you, Matt, for being here today.

The work of this committee is so important. You have an amazing job and a great responsibility to Parliament, to all Canadians, and to indigenous people and northerners. We know that parliamentary committees are the engine that drives democracy. I know first-hand that all of the activities and open debates that you'll undertake will help move the policy yardsticks further, but also, by shining a light on the work of this committee, we bring all Canadians with us as we embark on this huge job of reconciliation.

Your efforts go a long way toward advancing discourse on issues to the heart of our government, but they are issues that I think are shared concerns across all party lines. We understand that your job is to hold government to account. That's what Parliament does, and I welcome that.

As I was coming in, I was thinking about my five years as the chair of the subcommittee on persons with disabilities. We were able to do hard-hitting reports, unanimous reports, that actually moved the agenda on a lot of things that sometimes don't get the attention of cabinet or that you aren't able to move quite as quickly on if there aren't parliamentary committees shining lights on things.

I thank you all for being here and for your commitment to indigenous and northern issues. I want to thank you for the invitation to discuss my mandate letter, which is exciting because it's transparent and open. We are also happy to discuss the paragraph that's in the mandate letter of all ministers about renewing the relationship.

We think your scrutiny of these estimates is important, but it's also important as we look forward to the budget on March 22 and the main estimates. I look forward to coming back shortly after that, if we can, so we can help explain the choices that have been made. With budgets and main estimates, there are always choices.

As you know, the financial cycle of the estimates helps us to better understand the complex narrative of progress on important issues. It helps me provide a more complete and detailed performance story that links the efforts of the past with those of this government.

When the budget is tabled on March 22, because of the electoral cycle it will be a little out of sync with the estimates, and there were no supplementary estimates (B) because of the fall. We won't be able this afternoon to get into the details on the spending priorities. We have to wait with bated breath until March 22, but it's certainly not too soon to talk about our current efforts, my mandate, and some of the highlights of the estimates.

The Prime Minister has given me a significant mandate. He has stated quite clearly that no relationship is more important to him than the one with indigenous peoples. And the priority he places on that relationship is evident, not just in my own mandate letter, but in the mandate letters of all cabinet ministers.

As you know, one of the government's top priorities is to support and advance the work of real reconciliation with a vision that is positive, ambitious, and hopeful. There's an Ojibway word that many of you have heard me use, Giniigaaniimenaaning. It's the word for looking forward, with a deeper meaning of looking ahead to future generations. It's the title of the Métis artist Christi Belcourt's beautiful stained glass window in the Centre Block here on Parliament Hill. The artwork commemorates the legacy of Indian residential school survivors and their families. The window sits above the members' entrance to the lobby of the House of Commons. It's a reminder to all of us who enter this House, and again when we leave each weekend to go back to our ridings, to never forget and to work together for a brighter future.

Advancing real reconciliation in part means exactly that: collaborating in respect and co-operation to close the gap in quality of life between indigenous and non-indigenous peoples. I happen to believe this is entirely possible. It's the work of every one of us as parliamentarians and Canadians.

Reconciliation means a new relationship between all sectors of Canadian society and indigenous people, not just with the government. In fact, I believe this renewal is necessary for a Canada that makes us proud.

Upholding the principles of recognition of rights, respect, co-operation, and partnership is a sacred responsibility, and it means an end to top-down approaches and a commitment to listen.

That paragraph that has recognition of rights, respect, co-operation, and partnership is in every mandate letter of every minister. It means that each of us must have those words really on the tip of our tongues: recognition of rights, respect, co-operation, and partnership. It's only if we live those words that we will be able to realize the true work of reconciliation.

Mr. Chair, that's why I spent the first few months of my mandate listening and learning. I made it my early goal to absorb and take in as much as I can from indigenous communities across the country and from northerners. As I have learned through my work on other indigenous issues, the phrase “nothing about us without us” must guide what we do as a government and as parliamentarians.

I learned a long time ago that what I once thought was feminist leadership is actually indigenous leadership. It is about asking, not telling. It is about inclusive decision-making. It is about the talking stick that goes around so that everybody's views are heard, and then you come to a decision together in terms of what's the best for the most people or the best for the people who need it most.

This is a journey for all of us to change what leadership looks like and feels like. It's not top-down, father-knows-best leadership. It is about listening to communities and experts and those with lived experience, listening to concerns and advice to understand how we can best help to close the gaps on long-standing issues such as housing, employment, child welfare, education, and infrastructure.

Together with my cabinet colleagues, we've launched important discussions with all partners, including in northern communities. One of our top immediate priorities has been the launch of the consultation on the design of the national inquiry on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, and we thank you all for the all-party support for getting on with that work.

Since December I and my colleagues, the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Status of Women, have met with nearly 2,000 people from every corner of this country. These 17 meetings were held specifically for families and loved ones of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls and for the many indigenous women who have actually survived the violence. That was a group of people we hadn't expected, and we had to rejig the consultations to make sure those voices were heard and valued.

We're currently reviewing more than 4,100 online submissions and several written submissions. We have heard often raw and always heartfelt voices about the need to address the causes of indigenous women's and girls' vulnerability to violence: child abuse, poverty, lack of education and job opportunities, lack of affordable housing and shelters, the intergenerational effects of residential schools, and the many issues related to police and child welfare practices. In many ways, this experience has been a prime example of the major challenges we face in improving conditions and outcomes for indigenous people in general.

The enormity of these challenges has been clear to me throughout my time on this file, but I do believe that right now we are on the right path. We've begun consultations on addressing food insecurity in the north, meeting already in northern communities such as Norman Wells. We followed up on our commitment to regular meetings with the leadership of the new governments and indigenous leaders.

Already, I have met with the National Chief, regional chiefs and first nations, Inuit and Métis groups from across the country. I'm proud of the progress we've made in only a few short months together. But we have a long way to go.

One of the things that we've learned already is that what we had in the platform about a nation-to-nation basis is not the way the Inuit people would prefer to describe their relationship. They would prefer to describe that relationship as Inuit to crown. Again, we continue to shape what we need to do together in a way that reflects the needs of the people that we need to work in total partnership with.

Mr. Chair, the task ahead on other aspects of my mandate is both exhilarating and daunting, but I believe there's great momentum to push forward. We've committed, as you know, to implementing the recommendations of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, starting with the implementation of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, and for that I thank my colleague Romeo Saganash for all the work he's done on it. We have acquired the parliamentary guides for each of you that Wilton Littlechild and the other commissioners have completed with the help of the Inter-Parliamentary Union, and we have those bound copies there. There was just a bit of a glitch in presenting them at committee today, but they are available.

We will work with the respective ministers to enhance the role of indigenous groups in the environmental assessment. We have already demonstrated progress to help us deliver on that promise. As you know, in January my colleagues, Ministers McKenna and Carr, announced the first step toward enhanced collaboration and consultation with indigenous populations with respect to environmental assessment processes in order to best respect their rights and interests.

Mr. Chair, we will promote economic development, create jobs, and improve infrastructure, safety, and child care for indigenous people. We will also work collaboratively to establish a new fiscal relationship and to make significant new investments in first nations education.

As you can tell from the estimates process, it's very prescriptive. I think we're hoping the new fiscal relationship will allow a greater flexibility in terms of communities being able to set priorities and achieve the results they want for their communities. We expect to have more details on these commitments soon.

In all aspects of my mandate I've been clear that I welcome an honest and open discussion, as well as the advice and support of this committee as you are here today to do your important work on scrutinizing the supplementary estimates (C) that were tabled on February 19. I know you have the important work of voting on those at the end of this committee. I and my colleagues here at the table will try to get you whatever details you need in order to be able to vote properly at the end of the day. We also will get any additional information you need, Mr. Chair, in any format you would like in terms of a letter or something circulated to the committee.

I'd like to provide a few highlights before taking your questions.

The supplementary estimates (C) for 2015-16 provide the financial resources to take action on a number of key initiatives. The largest item in these is $64.5 million for out-of-court settlements, most notably for a settlement related to alleged errors in the creation of a reserve and the setting up of reserve lands in the early 1800s. We have a lot of work ahead of us in settling wrongs that are over 100 years old in so many situations.

The second-largest item is the $46.2 million required to reimburse first nations and emergency management service providers for on-reserve response and recovery activities. As you know, things from floods to fires are rightfully reimbursed by our government when there are these emergency situations.

The third item, which is $40.7 million, allows the department to continue the implementation of the Indian Residential School Settlement Agreement. We are well through that process, but there are still settlements to deliver. The department will continue to process and resolve the independent assessment process claims in a timely manner through the negotiated settlement process.

The fourth item, $40 million, was approved through budget 2015 and will allow the department to continue supporting the education partnerships program as well as early literacy activities delivered through the first nations student success program.

The fifth item I'll highlight is the $18.4 million that will support other implementation matters for the settlement agreement between the Inuit of Nunavut, the Government of Canada, and the Government of Nunavut. Mr. Chair, these funds are used to provide increases to the Government of Nunavut implementation funding, to increase Inuit employment in the Government of Nunavut, and to provide a Nunavut labour force analysis, which a lot of people feel is a very important next step in terms of achieving devolution.

The department will also receive renewed funding of $16 million to continue its work on a proactive reconciliation and management of Métis aboriginal rights and management of Métis and non-status Indian litigation.

Before I close, I will highlight a number of transfers with other government departments. Overall these transfers net to about $1.3 million, and the most notable transfers are for the remediation of federal contaminated sites. They amount to $1 million. I think of contaminated sites in terms of my very first briefing. The extent of this is shocking in terms of a couple of big projects around mines and what happens when mines default. Then we, as the Government of Canada, have the responsibility to clean up those sites.

Also, there's a transfer you can see there for providing “mental health support during the consultations on the design of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls”. That's $1.7 million. We were truly blessed to have the expertise of the Health Canada support workers who had already done the work on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. It was amazing to be able to just step into that resource that already existed.

Mr. Chair, the government is committed to delivering federal programming that will play an important role in building strong communities while improving the quality of life for indigenous people and northerners.

Also, in the spirit of Giniigaaniimenaaning, moving forward, all ministers of the crown share the Prime Minister's commitment to advancing real reconciliation. I value your opinions, advice, and assistance as we implement an ambitious agenda in this regard. You can consider yourselves all deputized, and we hope you will go boldly forth and prosper amongst your colleagues in all parties, in your ridings, and with all Canadians.

I want to pursue further discussions on how we can work together on these issues, which concern us all.

My colleagues will join me now in answering your questions about these estimates and about my mandate.

As I said, on questions for which we don't have the responses readily available, we will get back either to you as the committee to circulate them to all members, or to the member directly, whichever you would prefer.

On behalf of my whole team here and the team back there—all these amazing people who support me—thank you very much for the invitation today to be with you.

As they say, I'll be back.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Andy Fillmore

Very good. Thank you so much, Minister Bennett.

3:55 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear!

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Andy Fillmore

Before we get to the questions, I want to highlight a couple of things.

Committee member Charlie Angus is unable to be with us today and sends his regrets. He's dealing with a serious family matter. In his place today are Romeo Saganash and Georgina Jolibois, who will be sharing Charlie Angus's questioning time. Romeo Saganash will carry Mr. Angus's vote.

Moving up the table, Todd Doherty is not a committee member. He is joining Cathy McLeod, who is a committee member, and they will share their time as well. Cathy of course will maintain her vote.

Rémi Massé, you have returned. Welcome back. I know that you missed the first few moments because of another commitment. Are you sharing your time with anybody?

Is there any other time-sharing going on? No? Okay.

Of course, we welcome the other members who are at the table. We very much appreciate your presence.

We have 29 minutes to get through the next four questions of seven minutes each, so the timing is working out very well. Just as a reminder, these questions are on the mandate letter. We'll switch to supplementary questions after the first hour. These are on mandate.

The first question goes to Don Rusnak. Go ahead, please, Don.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Don Rusnak Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

Thank you, Minister, for coming, and thank you for bringing your staff here.

It's very important work that you have in front of you. I know that a lot of the communities in my riding are very excited about this renewed relationship and the emphasis the government has put on it.

Grand Council Treaty No. 3 are chomping at the bit to get into a nation-to-nation relationship and what that looks like. I've been getting calls from Grand Chief Warren White almost constantly.

How do you intend to implement the commitment to renew the relationship with indigenous peoples on a nation-to-nation basis?

4 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON

That's a great question.

As we look forward, it really is about respect. It is about the recognition of rights, respect, co-operation, and partnership. It's not only what we do, but how we do it. I think that part of my job is also.... It's not only the nation-to-nation piece, because I don't think we're going to get there if there isn't the interpersonal understanding of all Canadians, so I see it as part of my job to also work on the 96% of Canadians who are not from an indigenous background as to how we move forward with them.

I think that's why the calls to action of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission have been so important in terms of changing curricula and being able to move forward to deal with some of the real problems associated with stereotypes and assumptions that deal with this as though indigenous people are an issue from the history of Canada or from the past, instead of an exciting opportunity for the success and future of Canada.

The individual nation-to-nation piece is about dealing with the rights holders and dealing with the ability to listen and find out how we can move with the nations that are ready. From land claims to self-government arrangements, it's exciting that this part of my department, which is run by Joe Wild, is out listening to what communities want and finding out how we could shape an agreement with them that will help them meet their needs.

That may be a treaty or it may be this side of a treaty, but it is again the nation deciding what it will take for them and what controls they would need to be able to set their own priorities and find success for their community.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Andy Fillmore

Have you finished?

4 p.m.

Liberal

Don Rusnak Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

I was going to say, if I have any extra time—

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Andy Fillmore

You do have time. You're not even halfway through.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Don Rusnak Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

I can give it to Michael McLeod.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Andy Fillmore

Very good.

Michael, please go ahead.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I want to thank you and Yvonne Jones, the parliamentary secretary, for coming to the Northwest Territories. You were very appreciated in your discussions in Yellowknife and Norman Wells.

I see that we have two challenges left as we move forward. First of all, there is the time. We only have 43 months, and less than that if you factor in an election in the last year, so by my calculation we probably only have 36 months. We also have to move past the old system of running the clock on negotiations and discussions.

I have four questions for you. My office is bombarded by requests to meet and to talk to people in your department, to you, and to Yvonne. Will you consider putting together an engagement strategy to start meeting with the aboriginal governments across Canada?

The second question is this. Is the settlement of land claims and self-government negotiation a priority for your department, and if it is, how are you going to do that? There are so many questions regarding settled land claims and the inability of dealing with the agreements that everybody thought were in place.

Fiscal harmonization is something that's new, something that wasn't part of the negotiations, but it was brought forward. How can you deal with that?

Also, I'm really curious as to how we're going to move forward on the Kelowna accord. That was something that was in the platform. Some pieces will need to be discussed, and I'm told by all the departments where we raised it that it's in this department's mandate. I'm really curious to see if we have a plan to do that.

Thank you.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON

The engagement strategy is an interesting one, and we think we probably do need to do that. I must say that on my trip to the AFN in December, I found different regions had different approaches to the idea of an engagement strategy. I think there were a couple of nights that I was there until 11 o'clock, speed dating with each of the chiefs and councils. It was quite an interesting approach.

Again, part of the engagement strategy is knowing what people would like, and then we'll set something up. It is asking, not telling. It is about figuring out what that looks like, in that it's quite different coast to coast to coast, but I do think that if we have principles and values about moving forward on these things, Michael....

We also know that the job of the department and of the regional directors general is to be moving these things forward. Meeting with the minister isn't necessary in order to get progress every time. We are giving pretty clear directions as to how we want things to move, so the engagement strategy is about me and the department, and it is about this refreshment in the relationship going forward.

I would love your help on that, and we'll figure out how we can best do that coast to coast to coast as we try to get around to the regional meetings and the places where I can meet with as many people as need to meet with me each time.

On the land claims question, I think you're quite right that the Government of Canada signed some things, and the reason we have a land claims coalition is that the implementation doesn't feel right. We're very keen that we do better in the implementation of these claims and that we meet to set some targets as to how we get this done.

I think we talked about a Kelowna-like strategy or process in the platform. I don't think that 10 years later we can just download Kelowna and implement it. We need to go out and consult. That's why the reconciliation framework is what we're aspiring to, and it means that we have to listen to first nations, Inuit, Métis, and urban aboriginals. How do we move forward on developing a framework for reconciliation that closes the gap in the outcomes, which was the real focus of the Kelowna accord, and how do we change not only the fiscal relationship but also the governance, which would have move to nation to nation?

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Andy Fillmore

Minister, I'm terribly sorry, but we're out of time on that question, and you understand that we need to maintain fairness.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON

Okay, that's good.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Andy Fillmore

Thank you.

The next question goes to Cathy, please.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Thank you for coming, Minister. Certainly you have a very ambitious and hopeful agenda ahead of you.

I notice that some of the top priorities in your mandate letter from the Prime Minister talk about implementing the UN declaration and also the 94 recommendations of the TRC. I presume when they say “implement”, they don't mean it's an aspirational document. They mean “implement”.

I think there are some excellent recommendations. I think there are some excellent pieces in the UN declaration. I also believe that some areas are going to be very problematic, and I want to start with section 26.

In the Canadian legal context, I've read the legal opinions of a lot of lawyers on this particular area, and they indicate that it might run directly in the face of state sovereignty and the ability of federal and provincial governments to move forward in their respective areas.

I think we need to look at the William decision, which did talk clearly to the.... There are rare times when the federal government ultimately has to make a decision. Can you align the UN declaration and the Truth and Reconciliation Commission with that ultimate ability? I know you're going to consult more, but at the end of the day, will you still make the decisions as a federal government when you have to?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON

Absolutely. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action are, I think, spectacular. There's also the order. It starts with children and moves through the rest. It's a very good blueprint for my work.

On the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, I think there have been concerns about free, prior, and informed consent. Concerns have even been expressed by the special rapporteur that some people have taken it like a medical procedure, but it's about building a relationship.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Thank you, Minister.

At the end of the day, what I heard was that if the federal government had to make a decision....

I'm going to use pipelines as an example. Let's say it's the Kinder Morgan. I know we talked to National Chief Bellegarde, and through the interior of British Columbia, agreements are in place with the bands. They're very happy. Then they hit the ocean side, and it's “Whoa!”

What would consent mean? When you have 25 bands and 20 say yes and five say whoa, how are you going to deal with that?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON

You have to start earlier when you're planning the thing. That's what the implementation of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples....

The Nisga'a people have already planned for an energy corridor through their territory and would love a refinery. It is about listening to people rather than planning something and then all of a sudden saying “You love it, don't you?” It isn't going to work that way.

We want people to be engaged very early. Then we can find the win-wins.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

I appreciate that.

You might have noticed some of my questions in question period. I have some significant concerns. The TRC report calls on the government to repudiate concepts such as Doctrine of Discovery, terra nullius, and the government is very reticent to defend private property owners' rights. Essentially all of British Columbia is under treaties that have not been settled, so really all of British Columbia is on the table.

Tell me what it is going to mean to the private property owner when you implement these different recommendations. What can I say to my ranchers and the people in my communities as you're going through this process, to reassure them that...?

I did like it when National Chief Bellegarde said we need peace in the valley. Many of these communities have worked side by side for years, and they're together. In many ways I think they could come up with solutions so much better than we could, but tell me what to tell these fearful people who are concerned about private property and tell me what some of these concepts in the TRC and the UNDRIP are going to mean.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON

To quote Chief Bellegarde, veto is not utilized in free, prior, and informed consent in the UN declaration, but it's about collaboration and working together.

I think peace in the valley is what people want, but they want to have been consulted. When you talk about terra nullius or the Doctrine of Discovery, recognition of rights means recognizing that there were some people here first. That's what the Supreme Court said in the Chilcotin decision. These people have title. It is about working together and recognizing that there were people here first who have rights.

I don't know of any first nation that wants to bankrupt the country or bankrupt a province or territory. They want to work together. It's not a divorce; it's a marriage. We have to work together to figure out how to do that.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

I think the people at this table recognize that we have to get there. We have a long way to go. We have a lot of responsibilities.

I love the B.C. cattlemen. What they're not hearing from the federal government right now is a commitment to avoid, mitigate, and compensate when there are other parties that have interests in an area, whether they be ranchers or private private property owners. We should adopt that principle when dealing with third parties: avoid, mitigate, compensate.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON

I think that there is concern when it's something that could disrupt the land and the water. I think people are most concerned when there is the prospect of a mine and tailings, the kinds of issues that could seriously affect a way of life. The people who were there first have a right to say, “Did you know that this is a caribou crossing where you want to put that highway? What are you going to do about it?” or “This will affect where we have fished for millennia.” It is about talking together.